Demonic Forces are Realized

Written by Debra Pickman 10-08′


As of the article Sallie house; demonic or not?, we did not know or experience the things we have within the last year. As such I must say that we did not have all the information we needed to make a proper assessment of the situation we were in. Who knows, we still not be fully aware of all we need for a proper assessment.

During the year prior to August of 2007, we were warned by many psychics that there was an impending dome associated with the house and that someone was going to get hurt. We had many red flags that should have opened our eyes to the possibility that we were being misled or misinformed as a ploy to gain our trust and facilitate further interaction with the house and the spirits within. It is only in hindsight that we are now significantly aware of the negative spirits and possible demonic forces present in that house.

How did we come to that conclusion?

Well, let me tell you why we resisted it first. All our research pointed towards human figures and the personalities of human spirits being the driving force of activity in the house. With this information we felt that we had been able to forge a working and fairly reliable relationship with the spirits that existed in the house; those that had been protecting themselves from the living who entered and existed in the house for so many years.

We began to feel we truly understood their concerns and fears and with that understanding Tony’s attacks grew to be less and less on each visit and eventually subsided altogether. This in itself seemed to solidify that we were on the right path if understanding the dynamics of the house and its spirits.

Even though, EVP seemed to confirm much of our theories and understanding there were some EVP and activity that didn’t seem to fit.

Although we did not ignore it, we did put it on the back burner thinking at some point it too would make sense as we learned more through our continued efforts and investigation work. Thing is, we never should have put it on the back burner and in hind sight we should have focused more efforts on what did not seem to fit or make sense. Simply put however, you often never realize how much weight or importance something has until it is too late.

Even though there were some things that made us question some of the activity and/or EVP and the purpose of it, we forged onward with the thought that we were there and being welcomed by the human spirits. And at times the need or desire to return to the house was very overwhelming. Our desire to help and understand blinded us to the possibility of ulterior motives or influences.

For years other groups had offered the theory that there were demonic forces at work, Tony’s original feelings while living in the house were that of demonic activity and misrepresentation, and more recently psychic involvement offered the same daunting information. So here we were, more than three years into dedicated efforts and investigations into the house and felt we understood best the dynamics of the house more than any other individual or group.

Our belief was that after spending countless hours in detailed discussion and analyzing evidence, it was not possible for others to come in for an afternoon or a weekend and understand the house better than us. And so it went, we did not give much credibility to outside interpretation of the events and activity.

Although this will never be allowed to happen again, this error in judgment and gross neglect of the resources available to us came full circle the night of August 18, 2007 and was more fully realized each and every day in the weeks and months that followed.

Renae, Tony, Taylor and I returned to the house in August of 2007.

We entered the house twice that day; once early in the day and one later that evening. During the first visit we offered small gifts to the human spirits we felt were there and working with us to relay information and help us understand the questions we were trying to find answers to.

Upon entering the house we felt welcomed, energized, safe and without reservation. We smudged, we sought out a place to leave the gifts and spoke with the spirits thanking them for their participation and efforts. All the while our voice recorders were in play and looking back we should have reviewed the recordings before returning that evening.

Not heeding warnings

We left the house for a few hours, had something to eat, reviewed the photos we had taken and received a warning phone call not to return to the house that night like we had planned to do. Our egos got in the way, and we continued to be confused as to why others might feel we were in danger. Nothing we had interpreted, no evidence obtained nor any experience we had pointed to the idea that we would be in danger.

Renae, Tony and I pulled up in front of the house a few hours later. Renae saw a black mass within the house and I clearly hear unease in her voice that I had never heard before. Upon entering the house there was a distinctly different feeling from the previous visit that day. I felt a significant dread, doom and heaviness, but chalked it up to the warning we had received playing with my emotions. The experience has since taught me to follow my gut instinct; we should have left.

Tony was brutally attacked only minutes later, being lifted and thrown four feet backwards into a door and unable to get up because a force was holding him down.

It was only the words, “In the name of God let him go”, that enabled him to get back on his feet to flee the house and its grip. We fled the house so fast that we didn’t notice the damage that the door hitting the wall had done, but contacted the owner to let him know what had happened. Although he was not present at the time, the owner, Les Smith, can be reached at 1716 Santa Fe Street to verify the damage.

Over the years there had been many EVP’s that referred to what we thought was another overbearing and dominant human spirit.; a spirit they deeply feared and one that influence them to immediately hush and even disperse their gatherings.

In retrospect, we feel this was actually a demonic force or entity

It has been said that the negative entity within the house seems to reside in hole in the back of the basement is older than the house, that it is attached to the land. It is surmised that it fears certain strong living energies and attacks them or that it draws them closer to use the available energy.  It is further been suggested that the rituals evident by the markings on the basement floor have made this thing stronger or angrier.

It is also believed that this demonic force entices humans and their energy to the house that is traps and holds spirits that pass for their energy and to do its bidding. We have theorized that it presents itself to others and hides behind the human spirits it has in its control to gain the trust of the living. The more this thing entices the living and earthly bound spirits to the house and into its lair the stronger it becomes.

Spirits coming forth

A psychic once said, regarding a more recent group investigation, that the experiment we were doing in the basement with the tuning forks was bring up human spirits out of the ground beneath us and that this dark and negative force was significantly angered by this action.

During the same experiment two psychics felt this significant negative presence and before the end of the experiment they were both sick to their stomachs and fearful of retribution. The camera man continually felt heaviness on his chest and had difficulty breathing while filming the experiment. The experiment facilitator was sick and had disturbing dreams for several days afterwards.

Over the years the house, or an investigator’s visit to the house, has borne the brunt of being the escape goat for many negative things that have since happened in their lives; financial distress, damaged or failing relationships, ailments and medical issues, auto accidents and deaths of family members and pets.

It is difficult to determine what would cause questionable activity and my logical believe and our practice has always been not to lay blame on the house just because you can. Life happens.

There is always the chance and possibility that negative things are just in the cards for you, but with all that we and others have experienced and all that we have learned over the last year, we are being forced to entertain, with a little bit greater concern, the possibility that destructive events can be precipitated by the negative forces around us.

Will we ever really have proof of it?

No. But with every passing day Tony, Renae and I see it creep in. We feel the mental and physical attacks and influences that stimulate a tremendous avalanche of emotional upset and turmoil. We have felt, seen and heard things that are hard to describe to anyone not aware of the details of our experiences and it is therefore difficult to express the gravity of how dangerous we feel the entities of this house and other locations can be.

I hereby go on record to say, that Demonic forces are all around us, they can and do influence us in ways we have no concepts of. The battle to keep free of their oppression and influence is continuous and we have to keep God and his light in our minds and hearts to maintain the edge and upper hand in the everyday struggles that we blindly fight against negative forces.

About Debra Pickman

After living in an extremely haunted location with my husband who was physically and mentally brutalized by an unseen force my husband and I became experienced investigators applying our knowledge to other locations. We continue to speak at events, conferences and on radio shows around the world. Contact me at


  1. Hello Debra,

    Do you happen to know the person I should come in contact with about investigating the house? I have seen your episode on Paranormal Witness and for some reason I have watched about 100 times. Did your husband actually encounter the inhumane spirit like i saw in the episode?

  2. Based on Scripture all human souls go to Sheol (the dwelling of the dead) upon death and so I don’t believe that these spirits in the house are of a human nature. I believe any humans who died in the house have in fact moved on to Sheol to await the final judgement.
    Yahuwshuwah (Jesus) cast out demons from humans and never mentioned that any tormenting being was human but had acknowledged the existence of evil (non human) spirits.
    That being said, I think it’s in your best interest to not feel sympathy or try to “rescue” any spirit within the house. Even if you feel like some might not harm you it’s highly unlikely that they were ever human.
    It makes me curious to know if any previous owner had engaged in seances or any occult practices that opened this house up to demonic activity.
    If I was the owner I would get the house and land blessed and then tear it down and fill in any holes on the property before selling it.
    Since no one lives in the house I can’t see it generating income anyway and it is possibly a tax burden.

    *PS- I’ll be house searching in New England in the coming year and the top of my list is a house with a finished basement that has positive energy. I’ve dealt with creepy foreboding basements throughout my childhood and I’ve had enough 😉

    • Hi Maria,

      In researching and talking with the occupants that were in the house before us, I didn’t find anyone that owned up to (or for that matter seemed like they would have) doing seances or using a ouija board.

      As far as tearing the house down, I don’t think that would make a difference. From what we have learned during research and investigation evidence, to include psychic evidence and EVP’s, the demonic/negative energy/entitie(s) were there well before a dwelling was put on the land; they are tied to the land, not the house.

      Although there have been blessings, deliverances and bindings that have been done at the house which have rendered it quiet for a while, when investigative groups or individuals get in there they tend to ramp up the energy again. Basically they undo the work others have done to shut done the negative energy there.

      The city actually works with the owner now to rent it out to investigative groups and also allows tours during certain times of the year. The house definitely produces enough money to maintain itself and meet any financial needs it may have.

      Unfortunately, we do not own the house. If we did it would be handled much differently.

      I certainly appreciate your comments and thank you for sharing them.


  3. Hey Debra,
    I actually drove past the house today while on a road trip and I got sick and passed out in front for a few minutes! I think I’m very sensitive to places with a lot of energy, as this has happened in the Glore Psychiatric Museum in St. Joe and at the Belvoir Winery in Liberty, MO. Pretty creepy and I could never be prodded enough to do a tarot reading anywhere near Atchison!

    • Hi Hannah, very sorry to hear about your experience. It does sound like you are sensitive to the energy in a variety of places. When going near any place that is questionable and be sure to surround myself with positive energy. I’m sure your local library would have some books on how to use the sensitivity that you seem to have. It might be a good place to start if you want to learn how to suppress or harness that sensitivity.
      ~ Debra

      • Billy Fretwell

        hi Debra I watched the Ghost Adventures when they were investigate the sallie house and saw that other spirits came up on they laptop is it possible they could be more spirits in the sallie house

        • Hi Billy,

          Yes it does seem that there are several spirits in the house and I believe as more investigations are done the invitation for even more spirit to come is certain.


  4. Is anyone in the home as of today, 1/5/16?

  5. Who lived in the house in July of 2013

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