About The Official Sallie House Website


The Sallie House haunting has been in a class by itself simply by the conditions that seem to exist. There have been, full-bodied apparitions, and objects flying through the air. Items have moved been misplaced or lost only to reappear or show up later or at another location.

Phantom furniture has been heard along with thumps, thuds, knocks, scratching in the walls and the sound of animals and human voices. Although some voices have been heard with the naked ear, there has been an amazing amount of EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena) captured further depicting the voices of men, women and children.

Many have experienced extreme smells and on occasion seen full-bodied apparitions. Lastly, and likely most famously, there has been physical harm to the occupants and investigators in the form of scratches, burns and cuts. Although the majority of these attacks have often been centered on Tony himself, there have been a few others who have also been the focus of the physical harassment.
Tony and Debra 1994

Investigations into this house continue, but was initially investigated by the television show Sightings back when Tony and Debra Pickman lived there with their newborn son. Numerous psychics have entered the picture in order to help us along the way and they include Barbara Conner and world renowned, Peter James who has worked on the haunting of the Queen Mary for many years. Paramount Pictures created a made-for-TV movie titled the Heartland Ghost, which depicted the story of Sallie and the Pickmans experiences. The Pickman’s experiences have been document on television since 1993 on a variety of TV series such as the Travel channel’s, Most haunted Town,  KQ2 news out of St. Joseph, Mo, Unexplained Mysteries, and Channel 4 news out of Kansas City, KS, have all been involved in documenting this story since 1993.    More recently our story was told by Discovery Channel’s, A HauntingBiography Channel’s, My Ghost Story, then again with the Travel Channel. This time with the Ghost Adventurers.

Some believe that what exists in the house is evil, some believe that the entities within the house are reaching out and in need of our help, some believe that Tony is doing it all himself (which doesn’t seem like a viable assessment when the activity continues without his presence). Some believe there is much more going on there than we can imagine, and yet others think its all been a hoax.

A multitude of monitoring equipment has been utilized to help determine what is causing the strange occurrences in this small little house on the bluffs of the Missouri River. The equipment includes, but is in no way limited to digital and analog voice recorders, infrared and heat sensitive video cameras; electromagnetic meters etc .

Many investigative groups have used dousing rods, crystals and pendulums, and some have tried to set up controlled ESP situations to experiment with more possibilities. Since the activity seems to be so constant, some groups, very dedicated to learning more about the paranormal, have used the house as an experimental laboratory and have obtained some remarkable evidence not only expanding on the history of the house but also furthering the study of paranormal.

Okl hillWhat started out as the simple haunting, of one little girl named Sallie, has seemingly developed into a growing list of more than just that. Some think that over the years more entities have come to resided with the walls of this houses. Do they just visit, do they call the place home or has it become a doorway to the other side where the spirits we encounter move on after their visit?

The commonality, of all the investigations and the investigators involved or associated with this house, is that we are all curious about the who, what, and why of the house and its occupants. Who is there, when did they live, what do they want, why have they stayed behind, is there something they need to share with us, and what would that be? How is it that spirits or ghosts are able to move objects, show us their likenesses, and speak to us? These are just some of the questions that come to mind and in which we all seek answers to.

Most of the human race has an innate human curiosity about events they cannot explain. The scientific and logical principles we currently employee have not yet been able to explain many of the nuance’s attached to hauntings, and paranormal investigators have an overwhelming desire to do just that.

We study them to understand these events. Each investigation gets us closer to the truth and its in the sharing evidence and theories of all those who are interested or involved, that we learn more about this and other hauntings. For the reasons stated above, this site was Co-Founded by five individuals: Tony and Debra Pickman, Renae Leiker, and Jennifer and Jerry Talbert of The Kansas Paranormal Group. Tony and Debra Pickman are currently  the only active founders.

We have always take pride in knowing that this website will provide the best resource on the world wide web for factual representation of the events, activities and experiences that this haunting, known by many as The Sallie House, has provided. It is also why we ask for your help and your input so that we can continue to provide current information.

The website is currently going through a reorganization, but rest assured that all information will continue to be as relevant to the Sallie House as you have grown accustomed to. We are just changing the format. The site will now be searchable which will be very helpful if you are looking for something in particular.  We will also have categories in place which should handy as well.

A good portion of this website is dedicated not only our experiences but also to televised investigations done by TV series like Sightings and Ghost Adventurers. You will also find photos, and an EVP gallery as well as recordings of many Radio Interviews  that Tony and I have done over the years. We hope to bring you interesting and informative articles that will fund your mind with new ideas and theories about this case, and for those who work in the paranormal field, allow additional insights to working your own cases.

We want you to enjoy your time here and have firsthand knowledge and an ability to contribute to the ongoing research of the  Sallie House. We hope you will join us in our collective efforts to continuously work to provide the most factual and authoritative information on this haunting.

Learn about the Co-Founders.


  1. Hi Debra,
    First of all may God bless & protect you & your family. I understand you mentioned you are still affected by the experiencesame in the Sallie house. Are your children also affected? Also, have anyone been able to find proof of an actual person named Sallie in or around the area of the home? Did she really exist as far as anyone knows? Lastly, do you or Tony feel at all drawn to the house? This story has been so interesting since I saw it on Sightings. I hope you find peace & closure soon and that whatever resides in the home will soon move on. God bless! Prayers.

    • Hello Lilia,

      Yes we are occasionally still affected by the spirit that ties Tony to the house. As far as I know our children are not adversely affected the same way Tony is. There was never any historical information we or other historians have been able to confirm as far as a Sallie being tied to the house. No one has come across a little girl named Sallie. Tony does feel a significant daw to the house. In fact, several years ago in the winter Tony woke up to find himself standing barefoot in the front yard of the house. He had apparently walked there but had no recollection of doing so.

      Thank you for your prayers and kind words.


  2. Would you allow more in depth investigations at the house? For instance, I am willing to spend a lot of time there. I have two degrees in computer science and can use my knowledge to find out exactly what is happening and would love to bring in the scientific community in on the investigation. Also, who codes this site because I can help with a new site being this one is pretty basic with some grammar errors I’ve noticed? FYI I am not looking for any popularity on this, fame, money, or anything in that sort….Just answers to what exactly is going on. Thanks!

    • Hello Chad,

      As far as getting into the house, we have never owned it. Here’s a link that will be helpful for you. Getting into the Sallie House.

      On another note, there have been many investigations done on this house. Some short, some, as with the Kansas Paranormal Group, span the course of years. The house has proven to be somewhat of a lab for research and development. For many years Tony and I have been a part of many of these investigations. I would be very interested in your analysis should you decide to investigate.

      As far as our website, I have always managed it myself. It has actually grown to be much more than we ever thought and now I am trying to restructure and reorganize it as I go. Its quite a big undertaking for sure. I’ve tried to keep it error free, but I’m not always successful. Should you want to discuss it further you can always email me at debra@thesalliehouse.net


    • Hello Chad,

      As far as getting into the house, we have never owned it. Here’s a link that will be helpful for you. Getting into the Sallie House.

      As far as our website, I have always managed it myself. It has actually grown to be much more than we ever thought and now I am trying to restructure and reorganize it as I go. Its quite a big undertaking for sure. I’ve tried to keep it error free, but I’m not always successful. Should you want to discuss it further you can always email me at debra@thesalliehouse.net


  3. Hello Debra.

    I’ve had an experience recently, and wanted to know what you thought.

    So There’s been some very small, unnoticeable activity in my house over the course of my life. The furthest back I can remember is when I was very young, I was sleeping on the couch in my Living room for whatever reason, and I woke up at 3:00 AM (the witching hour) And saw a pure black figure that moved and looked exactly like my Mom walking into the Kitchen from the hallway. I called out to what I thought was her as she walked through the threshold into the Kitchen, I looked through the door in the living room into the kitchen and she was gone. No sign of her. Of course I wasn’t even double digits yet, and It was dark, so It was possible I was imagining it inadvertently. I fell back asleep. A few years later I was in the bathroom with my sister and we were getting ready for mass In the Twilight (That’ll be significant later) and there were these massive thuds from above us in the attic, like something big was walking, and the Toothbrush cup in front of us did a full 360 before both our eyes. We ran. Now, within the last week, I’ve been getting a really uneasy feeling in my gut around Twilight and into the hours of the dark. Last night I had a dream where there were at least 3 malign entities in my house (I would have said demons but three demons at once it unprecedented) I held up a Crucifix which I got for Christmas, which I was also wearing in real life, and Said something along the lines of “In the name of God, Leave this House and Family!” And woke up in the morning with a sore throat. Today I have the flu, and my mother is throwing up, but the gut feelings have stopped. My mother also has a bottle of water from Lourdes that she applies every day in the sign of the cross for health, and didn’t today, except for just now, and gave some to me also, and I almost instantly feel a little better.

    I’m sorry for such a long paragraph and if I went into some probably unneeded details at the end there, I’m just curious if you think this is ALL a series of coincidences, or if there’s something bigger here. This is also the second time I submitted this, and the first time I got an error.

    I await your response, and God Bless.

    • Hi Will,

      It’s hard to make a fair and realistic assessment without more information. It could very well be coincidence, especially since this is the cold and flu season. Chances are that you are a bit sensitive to spirit and your surroundings and are able to catch glimpses of them over the years.
      I would ask yourself a few things, like what have your ties been to the house; how recent and how strong are they.

      – have you visited the house, and if so how recent.
      – have you been researching this house/haunting and if so, to what extent (daily, weekly) and for how long (weeks, months, years)
      – has there been something recent that has become stuck in your mind about the haunting; something that you have dwelled on (ie. a photo, a piece of information etc.)
      – do you feel compelled to learn more about the house or to go to it and how strong is the feeling

      Unless your answers to the above questions have been rather significant, your experiences are probably coincidence.

      Hope this helps and thank you for sharing.


  4. I lived in a house that used to be on Kearney street between North 4th and 5th in Atchison. I was only 5 years old and clearly not able to tell normal from abnormal, but now I look back and realize that the voices, the nightmares, the fear and the feeling of being watched should not have been happening. It was a rough time in my family’s life and I think that house played a part in it. It is now a driveway.

    Before that, my mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother all lived in a 3-apartment house on 8th street just south of division. I remember seeing a “see-thru man” and the toilet flushing in an unoccupied bathroom. This house is gone, part of the field behind the old Martin West school.

    The list goes on.

    There is something wrong with that town. And yet, there are many people who live there who will never experience this stuff and scoff at us who have. They don’t know how lucky they are.

    All this being said, a friend of mine and I are currently looking for a location to investigate. We have stayed overnight in the Villisca Axe Murder House in Iowa and are ready to try something new.

    Thank you for your time, Mrs. Pickman.

    • Hello Jeffrey,

      What a delight to hear about the experiences of you and you family here in Atchison. I really enjoy the stories of others and especially here in town.

      Our paranormal group did an overnight investigation at the Villisca house and it was pretty amazing. As far as getting into the house here in Atchison, I offer the following for Getting into the Sallie House.

      Best wishes and thank you for sharing.


  5. I have a picture of me knocking on the door of the his house was working in town with the cable company on a project and at the time I did not know this was the sallie house.

  6. I have read the book and was curious if sallie is a little girl pretending to be an adult or she really is a little girl?

  7. how many people really believe in this stuff i am a victim are u?

  8. I have been there i almost died!!!!!!!

  9. Is this honestly true?

      • We drove past sallies house yesterday for the first time before my surgery. It was very exciting ! We are strong beliveres and our first home together was also haunted this was 7yrs ago in bonnrr springs ks. It was a good ghost but very active. I do however believe it saved our newborn daughters life once. Does anyone live in sallies house today? I know they did tours last month.

        • Hello Holly,

          In the beginning, I thought “Sallie” had maybe saved our newborn from SIDS. Believing that Sallie was only a demonic entity’s false presentation, I obviously no long believe that was the case.

          To answer your question, no one has lived in the house since about 2004.

          And yes, during the months of September and October, they do tours and bookings for investigations.

          Thank you for sharing.


          • Hello! I believe in these spirits however am not a christian. How could i protect myself from these spirits?

          • Maya,

            I would suggest using your own faith to drawn in protection thru prayer, ritual and even talismans.

            Other ways people have protected themselves is via Reiki, crystal work, guardian angels, psychic protection, aroma work and more.

            Hope that helps.


      • Hello, I am not claiming you false, but does your family have any history with hallucination, or schizophrenia? Possibly it was a hallucination. However, please do let me know if you think this was really a haunting!

        • Hello Maya,

          I’m glad you were not afraid to ask that question. And what a good question it was. No, Tony nor I have any history or even present hallucination or other mental disability that would serve as an explanation of the events that were witnessed. Of course there are moments when one or the other of us gets anxious or depressed; I think I speak for most individuals.


      • Hi Debra how are you doing?
        I wanted to know if the house is open to tours or not? Me myself have seen the paranormal witness and ghost adventures episode about the house. Trust me I understand what people say about enter at your own risk, I wouldn’t be doing this if I wasn’t interested. I would just like to know what I’m dealing with, do you believe it’s a little girl haunting the house or something different?

        • Hello Jayden,

          The Atchison Chamber of Commerce does tours for the Halloween season (of course) and periodically thru the year. You would have to contact them for more information.

          Also, we DO NOT think the entity in the house is that of a little girl. It is a demon presenting as such. It is very manipulative as well, so I cannot caution anyone enough.


    • Most these so called “haunts” I had checked into, you have to pay out through your noise some serious money to even go to one. And they never let you bring in your own recoding stuff to do your own investigation. You have to rely on the information of the investigators, and physics the owners choose to do it. And that is the only proof they will let be released. So really as far as I am concerned, it is “staged” and a “payoff” for entertainment so they can make money… Nothing real about it, just a cheap staged spook show…

      • Hi John,

        I’ve never gone to a location that would be described as you stated. We have gone to some locations that do charge a small fortune, but we were left on our own and allowed to bring/use any of our own equipment.

        I would say that if you cannot bring/use your own equipment and assess the location independently, it is not an investigation. If they are feeding you specific information and that is the only “evidence” or information you are taking away from the experience, it is more like a presentation or guided tour. Perhaps these places you speak about aren’t haunted at all. Maybe, as you stated, it’s all about claiming its haunted so they can bring people in as you mentioned and make money off of their, so called, “claims”

        This would definitely not be considered an investigation , but as you said, an entertainment experience.

        Not all “haunted” locations are like that. Most often they let you make up your own mind from your own evidence and experiences.

        Certainly frustrating to say the least.


    • Very very true. Spent several nights there investigating, and have heard and seen it all.

  10. I have just asked livescifi the following after reading and hearing your story, I used to be a fan of them and I’m very sad to hear the truth about them. I do pray and hope for your families safety and it deeply saddens me that it still continues to effect Tony.

    “Not trying to cause a fight here. But I’d like to know why you intentionally antagonise and provoke the bad energies in these houses to stir up negative energy? Don’t you feel disrespectful and dangerous? Like when you visit the Sallie house and cause chaos and that then harms Debra and Tony, do you not care about their wellbeing?”

    I will reply if he responds.
    Many kind regards

    • Hello Ophelia,

      Tony and I both appreciate your concern and informing us of your intervention. Unfortunately, I doubt that you will get a comforting reply from LiveSciFi. They think what they do there is perfectly fine. Their response to us when we asked a similar question was that they have no proof that it affects us in any way. At this point however, Tony would rather endure the trouble rather then be a public spectacle again. We don’t feel that we have anything to prove; if we were faking anything over the years we certainly would have been called out by now (more than 20 years later)

      I would be very interested if they reply, so thank you for keeping us in your thought.

      Blessings to you and yours,

      • Regarding Livescifi, I seen their videos they have done and in my opinion what they been doing is reckless and dangerous to themselves and others. No reputable paranormal group WOULD do anything like they would do. One video had them use a ouija board at a place that was getting complaints of haunting especially negative. That can not only make the haunting far worse but could cause the demonic entity to latch onto you.
        Another video had one of the guys challenge a possible demonic spirit which again no paranormal expert ever recommends.

        • Hello Kenneth,

          I completely agree with you. LiveSciFi has been “investigating” (and I use the word loosely for the reasons you mention above) like this for a long time. Very reckless indeed. They don’t only put themselves in danger but others as well; not to mention individuals or other teams that enter the house after their taunting.

          Unfortunately they have many followers who think this is the correct way to investigate.

          I could go on.

          Thank you for your comment

  11. Hi Debra, I was wondering if something had happened in the Nursery room before you moved in?

    • Ariana,

      The only thing we know about, is that several years before we moved in the Elias’s and Anderson family lived there. They had an odd dire in the nursery and to this day don’t know how it started.


  12. Good afternoon Mrs, Pickman.
    My name is Kenneth and I have seen you and your husband’s story about Sallie on multiple shows and I have a few questions if you don’t mind me asking:
    1. I read that Sallie was indeed a demonic spirit intending to possess your husband. Was there any possibility that the Sally ghost was not herself demonic but was controlled by a demonic entity (similar to the “Smurl Haunting” which was investigated by Ed and Lorraine Warren)?

    2. Speaking of the Warrens, I thought I read they helped investigated the haunting not long after you and your family fled and if that is correct what was their opinion on the house and activity?

    3. From what I understand the demonic spirit is still at the house which is unoccupied because of all attempts to rid it have failed. Is it because the house itself is being used as vessel by the demon to find a human host (somewhat similar to the Annabelle doll)?

    • Hello Kenneth, and please don’t feel like you have to be so formal. Debra will do just fine.

      Your questions are awesome.

      In answer to your first question, Yes. We don’t feel there actually was a Sallie spirit but that she was a presentation by a demonic to attain our acceptance and therefore more control in our lives and ourselves.

      I am not aware of the Warrens ( rather Larraine, because Ted died several years ago). We met Loraine several years ago at a conference, and we have since spoken with her several times on the phone. She told us to stay away from the house and that she picked up many more eveil spirits there than she did at the worst haunting she investigated.

      The answer to your last question, it’s very possible. It’s been reported that the evil reside from the land not the dwelling. There have also been blessings, deliverances, binding, clearings and more done at the house. Each are rendered null and void because people are always coming in afterwards and reinitiating the connection with the evil. Its sad to know the entity is able to sit and wait for its next victim/hinam host.

      I hope the above helps.


  13. Hi Debra, I was just hoping for your “expert” opinion on an incident (unrelated to Sallie House)… My dad who believed in everything from UFO’s to the After Life to Spirits/demons at 57yo was hit and killed by a car last year. The medical professionals told us that he died upon impact (His skull was crushed in). But a month or so later we obtained a copy of the police report and the gentleman that struck him said “When he landed he immediately got to his hands and knees looked up then slowly raised his hand palm down, gripped something then layed back down” He remained “alive” until 8 minutes after we got to the hospital at which point he left us while we held his hands. My brother, sister, and I like to believe that someone loving (perhaps family) took his hand, but left his spirit long enough for us 3 to “see him off”. What do you think?

    • Hello Tonda,

      I must say that I am not expert, and very likely there are non in the field, but I do strongly believe that when we pass to the other side there are loved ones who are aware of the situation and are waiting to help them; ambassadors you might say. I also believe that as we pass we may have the ability to hang on for a little longer just to finish up the life we had here on Earth. You and your family were very lucky to be holding hands when he passed.

      Blessings to you and your family and prayers for strength and clarity in your dad’s passing.


  14. Hi Debra,
    We met last July at the Pyithian Castle in Springfield, MO. Keith and I are actually about to drive through Atchison, we thought we would drive by the house. Hope all is well with you and your family!

    Shayla Jackson

    • Hi Shayla,

      I have met so many people, it’s often hard to put a face to the name. I think I remember you though.

      The chamber is actually allowing tours this month and next. It’s part of the city’s Holloween celebrations. If you have the chance to go in, be very careful and be sure to say a protection prayer before and after going in.


  15. 1600 9-7-16 Saw an orb come down the stairs to the left of the doll.

  16. At 1552 9-7-16 Saw an Orb in the basement move frame left to top left frame.

  17. I am a long time paranormal investigator now living in central Arizona and watched last night’s Ghost Adventures. There was a medium there by the name of Alissa I believe. Is there any way I can be put in touch with her? I am always seeking out professionals to help in what I do. Been active since 1999 in the Chicago area, Austin, Texas area and now Arizona. Seeking interns as well. I have a Facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/lostandfoundparanormalresearch/

  18. Has anyone tried to antagonize the spirits yet? People say you shouldn’t, but when I want results, I talk trash to them. I would love to visit and talk down, make fun and irritate them. Would that be possible?

  19. Hi Debra,
    Thank you for sharing your experiences! Would you elaborate more about your belief of ghosts that present themselves as family members? And what the Bible says about spirits of those passed on.

    • Good questions Sandy.

      Interpretation of the bible is somewhat up to interpretation. Many feel that it says there are no ghosts; whatever you may be inclined to judge as a ghost is actually evil. However, that leaves one confused by the words, “In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost”. Does the mention of “ghost” here suggest evil. I think not. We are then only left with how it was designated “Holy” to discern it from what is said to be “evil”.

      As far as family members presenting as ghosts, I would be very wary. People have been know to see, what they believe as a loved one, morph into something hideously evil.

      • Thanks so much for your response Debra!

      • If I may interject here. The Fundamentalist movement by man-made invention removed all possibility of hauntings and ghosts, based on the conclusion that “all the dead are either in Heaven or Hell.” This conclusion is not Biblical. That is to say, the Bible NEVER categorically states that there are no ghosts. Nor does the Bible state that all the souls of the once-living are either in Heaven or Hell.

        Secondarily to that, the Old Testament contains a warning against those who would seek out mediums in order to commune with the dead. Biblical scholarship leads us to recognize two aspects to this prohibition. One, that such an act was prohibited, because God was (and still is) supposed to be the One in whom we place trust regarding our present and future. To consult a medium (who in-turn would consult the dead regarding some matter) would be then to displace God as the sole source of help- which is what God wants to be, and even demands to be. A second point on that is that the Bible at such a junction never says that spirits do not exist.

        An interesting point, with regards to the Bible and ghosts is this. That when Jesus walked out to the Disciples one night, across the Sea of Galilee, as they sat in a boat. Response? They all completely “freaked” (as is current vernacular). They believed they were seeing a ghost, (for, after all, who can walk on water?) When Jesus was on-board the boat, it was clear he was no ghost. Now, as the Son of God, he has the same insight as God. He knew their thoughts. Yet, never does he correct them. Never did Jesus say, “There are not ghosts, so please stop speaking foolishly.” At least, no such thing is recorded – and it might be, just as many things once mysterious were made known through Jesus’ very words.

        This brings us back to the ridiculous assertion of certain Fundamentalists, and those who follow in their suit. The assertion as we have said is that “there are no ghosts, the dead are all in Heaven or Hell.” They add to that, “ALL ghosts are just demons masquerading as the once-living.” The problem with this is that such a claim is found nowhere in the Bible. Further, it is a form of heretical teaching to insist on such a thing being a “truism” without their being a spiritual basis for its acceptance.

        In brief, the Bible does not at all claim the things that people do. There is no Biblical reason to believe the dead are *not* in some way still among us.

        I’ll add that the Bible, in its representations and characterizations of demons, never once says they immitate the living or dead. They are able to possess – cf. “Legion” in the Bible. They are able to be cast out (for the power of the authentic person of God is more mighty than the power of the evil one, and satan’s demonic representatives on earth. This is the key to understanding the true power of “exorcism” and why so many from various denominations cannot adequately free an individual from demonic oppression, possession or control). When evil spirits are cast out, they “go through lonely places,” Jesus advises us. The spirit then thinks (yes, they are capable of intelligent thought articulated to action) they should return to the person from whom they have been cast out, and they will bring more spirits, even more evil than they are – and “the final condition is worse than the condition at first,” says Jesus.

        satan is in the world, which explains all the mess, and all the things that do not add up. The good news is this. “The one in you is stronger than the one in the world.” This is not a wish. Luckily, it is a powerful and spiritual fact. Anyone who authentically has God will be kept safe from ultimate spiritual harm. The Bible says so.

        On the matter of why some evil seems ultra-resistant to being abjured, compare the ridiculous efforts of the Seven Sons of Sceva (Acts 19) with the effects of the Son of God, or those who are under the aegis of Heaven.

        Be warned: holy water is nothing. And not anyone should presume to be an “exorcist” or spiritual counselor. Even the disciples of Christ ran into trouble when trying to force out demons. “This type can only come out through prayer and fasting,” Jesus said of those difficult “types” of demons. The Bible teaches that prayer and fasting when they are just used as some kind of ritual are of no value. The Bible teaches what True Fasting means. These are linked to a spiritual dependency upon God, a spirit of submission to the Great God, who is highest of all. That comes from a very real and active “relationship” with the Living God. Bible words are not “magic” – they must be the Living Sword if they are to have power and conquer the spiritual enemy. So, empty recitations of psalms are useless and meaningless. (Be warned, whoever might read this).

        Anyway, I’m Khristofor Galdin. At age 2, I awoke every night to talk with a ghost who would manifest at the foot of my bed. When I shared a room with an older sister – she would see a gold mist appear at our door, then it would move into the room and stand at the foot of my bed. At that time, I would see the vision of a boy. I am much older now. I moved just recently from a house with a spirit in it. It did no harm, and had its funny little ways of letting us know it was there… I have lived in another house where a human-like thing with a slit for eyes sat, reclined in quiet repose, on the living room floor, on the other side of midnight, staring at my tiny daughter as she went to the bathroom. At an apartment, I was scratched by something that wasn’t there, (I have pics); and we were heckled by spirits.

        But, we are alive. And we are among those who have encountered things that ‘should not be.’ And, who do we tell? Ha! Who listens to our stories? 🙂

        Blessings to you, Mr and Mrs Pickman. What an amazing encounter, and how fortunate you could escape. I believe most certainly that the demon was quite shrewd and masqueraded as a little girl. We know the nature of anything by what it does. Not just by what it says it is. The effects of the
        encounters you had were to drive you and your husband apart… To torment and physically harm your husband, and so forth – all which would be c ommon acts of a demon, and in other cases, very angry (oftentimes old) ghosts.

        Please forgive me for this lengthy message. I had so much to say, to cover, after watching your story in every form that it was produced for public viewing, and after the many things I have experienced.

        With peace, amity and great respect,

        • Hello Kris,

          I must say I really enjoyed your post. You did have a lot to say. Also you are correct about the “little girl” and the goals of the demon to drive Tony and I apart. We were more shrewd; as we escaped and survived.

          With great appreciation for your informative post and kind words.

      • Holy ghost meaning the spirit….we live in the physical world. Lots of reference to physical and spirit world in the NT.

    • I have seen my fathers ghost twice (my father is not passed) so it never made sense to me. The first time he was standing in the dark in the kitchen drying a tumbler from the dishwasher, he looked like a ghost. I called out to him, he looked up with very wide eyes at me! I went to touch him, and it was like he faded into thin air.. mind you the dishwasher was left open and the top drawer was still pulled out. I was about 7.
      The second time I was getting a drink in the dark again in the kitchen, I look up (we had a large kitchen window that looked into the backyard) and there was dad again, this time we looked stunned, but still had a blank look on his face, staring straight back at me. What freaked me out is that this time he did not look ghostly, or see-through, he looked alive with skin to touch and all, but the colour of him was pale white which scared the absolute crap out of me.. I was about 8 or 9 yrs old.
      Dad is still alive to this day. I have no idea who or what was posing at my dad…

      • Hello Fallen,

        Quiet interesting. I visited with Tony on this before posting an answer. We believe that a spirit in your life was trying to make it’s presence known to you without presenting as something that would startle or scare you. (ie. a father figure would not, but a strange person may). Perhaps you had an uncle, grandma or someone else pass and wanted to keep an eye on you. As young as you were you may not have recognized them as friendly.

        Did you ever tell you family about these experiences?

        Since they were not ongoing over the year, these experiences should be nothing to worry about.


  20. Hi Debra,
    I recently watched the episode Paranormal Witness “The Harpy”. My question for you is, why is it titled “The Harpy” as it seems as though the haunting was by demonic forces or other evil entities. I got the impression that you all were haunted specifically by this Harpy creature–I guess I would like to know what relevance does it have to you, your family, and the Sallie house? Thank you for your time and hope to hear back from you soon.

    • Hi Renee,

      We were caught by surprise as well that the producers called it “The Harpy”. Hell we had never heard of such a thing. As you may or maynot know, TV shows have full creative control when creating the show and what their interpretation is on our story, and they do so for entertainment purposes and to gain ratings.

      We actually believe that there was so much information that they had been give in our interviews that the crunched some things together. The fact that Tony was seeing a female figure and a bird on her hand when she was reaching for him, was likely crunched into one idea/image. That’s all we can figure. By the time we heard of the tittle they gave the episode it was too late to to even suggest a different tittle.

      We do not feel it was a harpy that we were experiencing in that house. It was a demonic force.

      What we did really like about their representation is that it explained/explored the negativity, fear and dangers that existed and of which none of the previous shows had shown the viewing audience.

      Thank you Renee. This was a really great question and I know other have been curious about it as well. Glad I was able to answer it here so all could see the answer.


      • Hi Debra, has anybody ever attempted to cleanse the house with a priest?

      • Hello Debra:
        I don’t know where this may fit into your years of stories, but here’s what happened to me just the other day. I was looking through the cable listings for something to watch, & the “Paranormal Witness” episode of “The Harpy” caught my attention for unknown reasons, so I set it up to be recorded while I did other things.
        When I played it back later, I was intrigued by the notice at the beginning that the events occurred in Atchison, because I have visited Atchison & the old cemetery at Good Intent for decades now every Memorial Day; I’d drive my Mom from Topeka to Atchison so we could pay our respects at her father’s grave at Good Intent. Mom passed away on 11/09/2015, at the age of 91, so this past Memorial Day was the first time I have ever visited Atchison / Good Intent alone.
        So, as my interest in “The Harpy” episode is piqued within the first few minutes of watching, my cable connection becomes lost, & the TV screen goes black. I was quite frustrated by this, because I was thinking I’d get to learn a little more about the town I’d visited yearly with my Mom for more than half my life.
        Resetting the cable connection is usually simple, but that night it was the most difficult it had ever been: I had to change the batteries in the remote, turn the surge suppressor off & on numerous times, etc., before the TV would come on again. I found “Paranormal Witness” among my recordings listed, started watching the episode again . . . & the cable connection was lost for a second time within about 15 minutes — that has never happened before.
        In all, I lost & had to re-set the cable connections — with fresh batteries in the remote — for that show 5 times before I could watch the entire episode; what should have taken roughly an hour took me all night long to watch in it’s entirety. I have never had that much trouble with the cable service previously, & since erasing “The Harpy” episode, the connections have been fine.
        I should mention that I took care of Mom in her home for the last 8 years of her life, & I now live in an apartment which is solely furnished with her furniture. Nothing “bad” has happened since I moved here in Dec., 2015, from Mom’s home, but the lights have flickered on by themselves, & I routinely hear “knocks” of varying loudness throughout this apartment, which is otherwise a very quiet building, as it is a “no children / no pets” building.
        I should also mention that I cared for my stepfather in that same home with Mom until he passed away on 5/27/2010, & soon after his passing, both Mom & I would routinely experience the knocking sounds & the lamps turning on by themselves in the house. Those lamps are now here, turning themselves on in this apartment from time to time. There have also been times I have been awakened by what feels like someone bumping into the side of the bed, which used to belong to them; it’s not jarring or violent, but enough of a “nudge” to awaken me. I live alone without any pets, so I cannot attribute any of this phenomena to a roommate or an animal here.
        I often feel the “positive energy” of my parents here, as I’m surrounded by their belongings, & I had to wonder the other night if the constant interruptions while trying to watch “The Harpy” was Mom’s way of saying, “Don’t watch that — I want you to have only positive thoughts about Atchison.” I know that sounds odd, but the only connection I have to Atchison is through memories with my Mom, & I really have no idea why the listing for that particular episode of “Paranormal Witness” caught my attention, when I didn’t even know it was about Atchison when I set the recording.
        Again, I don’t know where this may fit into your countless stories about “The Sallie House,” but the TV program interested me enough to do an internet search which led to your site. I was interested in possibly touring the house, but after reading several reviews along with your posted information, I would now only want to drive by it the next time I’m in town. It appears to be a nice, well-constructed home for someone of above-average means around 1900, but I’ll just settle for admiring it from the street.
        Finally, I hope that you, your husband & your son (who would be about 23 now) are all doing well now in your lives in general. You obviously put much effort into maintaining this website, so keep up the good work: you all have a fan in Topeka who you’ve never even met. Best wishes to you always.

        • Hello Randy,

          It sounds like you have a lot of positive and loving energy around you, especially because you have so much of your loved ones furnishings. And I would agree that its very likely the activity you have noticed is that of your loved ones. I hope you find it comforting, not everyone has that available to them after their parents and grandparents pass. As long as the activity doesn’t ramp up all should be well.

          Considering the activity and trouble you had trying to watch The Harpy, I again think you are on the right track. Someone didn’t want you to watch it or gain too much interest on it. Good thing you researched the Sallie house before deciding to go into it. With that said, and acknowledging the activity you have seen, I would make a mental note of any increased activity. This could very well signify that your spirits are telling you something is wrong or something needs to change; increased activity could mean they are concerned about a new job, plans that you are making, a significant other or something else.

          Its nice to know that you have someone on the other side that is looking out for you. Thank you so much for sharing and I am very glad you decided only to drive by the house. A good decision on your part for sure.

          Lastly, our family, now 5 of us (we have 3 boys) is doing well. Taylor is 23 and just graduated college with a masters degree and our other two boys graduated high school about a year ago.

          So thank you for your kind words and blessings to you for only positive energy.


  21. Hi Debra,
    I was wondering maybe i just havent come across the info yet but why exactly did u name the entity Sallie if there was no proof of any child by that name passing in the house?

    • Hi Mary,

      No you didn’t miss it. I haven’t posted a great number of pages yet that I had on the website prior to reconstruction (which is taking a lot longer than I originally anticipated).

      My husband’s brother worked with a woman who’s psychic sister was coming into town at a time when the stuffed animals were being moved in the nursery. She agreed to meet with us and actually spent about 2 hours with us. It was she who first brought up the name Sallie, because that is what the entity presented itself to her as.

      After the television show “Sightings” aired the first segment of our story, we had a woman show up at our door telling of the experiences she and her daughter had while living in the house for short time previous to our occupancy. Toys would be strewn in the child’s bedroom and the child claimed it was her friend Sally. Mom was under the impression this was her daughter’s imaginary friend and dealt with it as such, that is until watching “Sightings” and seeing that we were referring to it as Sally because of the psychic’s impression.


  22. Hi Debra thank you in advance for answering. I have a few questions for you if you don’t mind. Here goes it…when you any your husband were first looking for a place to rent what made you choose that house? Can you remember if it was you or your husband who decided that was the house you would rent? Did either of you want to rent it more than the other? Did either of you have to convince the other to take this house? Lastly, years ago I saw a show on TV where some investigators were interviewing the current tenant, a woman who was insisting the house wasn’t haunted. She agreed to let them in but would not let anyone go in the basement. Was this the woman who was doing sacrifices in the basement? Thank you again. You and your husband are very brave. The both of you chose to continue to courageously assist in educating people on this. Your both heroes. God bless you and your family.


    • Hello Lynn,

      I would be happy to answer your questions, so he it goes.

      1. We just liked the house. It was bigger than where we we coming frome and big enough to grow our family since I was pregnant.

      2. We made the decision to rent the house together.

      3. I think we were equally excited to rent the house because it was so roomy.

      4. No convincing was needed on either of us. We both rather fell in love with the house.

      5. The woman who would not allow anyone past the front room of the house was ultimately the one who was responsible for the pentagram in the basement. Although it’s difficult to determine exactly what she was doing (conjuring, sacrificing, casting et…) the fact that she did have a pentagram on the basement floor and the likes of a cauldron, black robe and an altar, was enough for the landlord to throw her out.

      Those were great questions and I hope the answers were helpful to you.


      • Why was this the reason for throwing the lady out? A pentagram is a symbol for protection. Sounds like he wanted her out because she was different and witchcraft was the reason.

        • Hello Willow,

          Although, witchcraft is inherently a good religion with solid beliefs, many don’t understand it and the connotation always seems to be of the negative sort. Unfortunately, in this situation, and knowing the symbols that were used and circulating the pentagram, it seems to have been upside down and be of the negative sort.Although the owner may have made a quick and incorrect assessment of the symbol, I believe it was a good thing that he put a stop to what was taking place in the basement.


  23. Vaishnavi Shiv Shankar

    Hi Debra,
    I am a Girl From India and Very Much interested in the Paranormal. I See it as a Medium For Helping Others. I actually want to be a paranormal investigator too. I would be grateful if You give me some pointers. And i have a question that What Is The Diffrence Between A Demon And A Ghost. I love Your research And Programmes
    Vaishnavi Shankar

    • Hello Vaishnavi,

      Ghosts were once human, demons never were.

      As far as becoming a paranormal Investigator, I would suggest reading everything you can on the subject. You can learn so much by reading from the experiences of others. I would then find a group near you if that is possible. I’m not sure how India tradition feels or accepts the paranormal or if delving into it is as popular as it is here in the states.

      Here are a few websites I thought might be helpful to you.

      Ghost hunters in India

      Paranormal Socities


      Best wishes,

      • God made it clear unforgiven humans who die “sleep”, forgiven ones go to Heaven, and demoms haunt or possess peole or wander. There’s no humans haunting, every haunting is creepy, is every human who haunts a creep, no, so it’s obviously as the Bible says: evil spirits/demons.

    • All hauntings are by either fallen angels or another legit theory is they are the half human children of watchers, beings like angels but which had a different role in the Earth world. If watcher children my guess is they are from hybrids born after the Flood of Noah. The bible forbids summoning demons for a reason: they are EVIL, EVIL, EVIL beings that almost always lie.

      • I couldn’t agree more, Summoning demons is bringing pure evil down upon not only yourself and your loved ones, but other who get in the way of what they want to accomplish.


  24. Hello Debra,

    I’m a huge fan of the shows Paranormal Witness and Ghost Adventures. After the episodes regarding the Sallie House I’ve become very intrigued about going with my father to see the house- and hopefully do one of the over night investigations. My father and I have been very into the paranormal since I was very young. While my mother is a skeptic, I’m a full believer from my own experiences. I was wondering, was there anything that happened that you hadn’t mentioned in the shows? How has the negative entity affected you and Tony?
    I’m very interested in the house itself, have you, since you two have moved out, found any other information on the house and maybe a way to identify the negative entity? Any information about the house would be wonderful, but I understand if you choose to not speak of what happened.

    Best Regards, Aalto.

    • Hello Aalto,

      Thank you for your comment. Tony and I have been on so many televised shows and honestly there are so many experiences to talk about that we have been known to talk about them with investigators for an entire day and still not cover them all. There have also been times that we’ve experience continued effects of this haunting in our current home.

      Tony and I don’t advocate for anyone to go into the house. It is potentially very dangerous!

      There have been repeated EVP’s of a certain demon responsible for the events at the house and of which I will not repeat here for the safety of all. This name has also come up within the investigation’s of other groups and individuals. Again this location is potentially and extremely dangerous.

      As far as information about the house, there is much. If you can be a little more specific as to what you are looking for, I’m sure I can help as best as I can.


      • Hi Debra, my name is Taylor Rogers, I’m 17 years old. I have watched about the Sallie House both on Paranormal Witness and A Haunting. There are some things going on in my house. My mom has seen a figure in our laundry room. I have heard my name called. And I’ve asked my mom did you call for me? She told me no. I heard my name! Other things… I’d rather not get into.

        • Hello Taylor,

          It’s important to acknowledge how you feel when these things happen. It’s normal to feel a little scared or uneasy, but I’m talking beyond that. To you get a bad feeling or do you feel ok? Follow you “gut” instinct. If it feels bad in your gut, something probably needs to be done. If you do not get an uneasy feeling, then you and the spirit you’ve encountered can likely live in a harmonious way.

          I hope that makes sense.

          If things change or get uneasy at any time, then it would be time to bring in some help.


  25. This is gonna sound a little crazy…I don’t even know of your house until I moved into this one and well it said Sallie house. It said my daughters name nanna..she won’t sleep upstairs! It said yellow vanguard picture???? I don’t understand..how could this be linked to u? I’m in Indianapolis Indiana in a house I’ve had for thirty days! Someone help me out here..why does it want me to contact u???

    • Hello Wanda,

      At this Point I’m just as confused as you. Do you know any of the history of the house? What did the voice sound like: male or female, did you have a positive or negative feeling about it? Does anyone else here this? How old is your daughter and I she hear them as well, or perhaps even see them?

      Should you want to talk more privately feel free to e-mail me at debra@thesalliehouse.com.


    • You need to talk to a priest asap a demonic force or poltergeist maybe from sallie herself seems to have attached itself to your daughter. Children are extremely vulnerable to demonic forces. I have a very fierce sense of dread like something is not right please do something fast I had a terrible experience with a poltergeist in Wichita kansas in 2008 where medium size teddy bear moved across the room right in front on my eyes. I later tried to throw the bear away and it kept reappearing with tears in different spots and I got scratches all over my body. When the bear was present I moved from the residence in 2009 and left the bear. Roughly three weeks later I’m shopping at a thrift shop and the bear greeted me at the door with an extremely sinister energy. I left immediaty and a week later on the news the thrift shop owner died from a freak accident where a sword hanging from the wall fell and struck her while selling the bear for 6.00 on the sixth day of June 666. The buyer of the bear immediately dropped the bear and called authorities the bear sat beside her when they arrived. This may be irrelevant to sallie but demons can attach and follow your child and they mean nothing but harm. I will pray for you and your child.

  26. Hi Debra. I have been following your story since it was first aired on Sightings. Subsequently on Paranormal Witness and Ghost Adventures + Aftershocks. It is a real shame you all had to leave the house due to the Entity living in your home. I assume the house is still vacant? Anyhow. All the best to you both in the future and hopefully you can find closure to what has happened.

    • Hello Ian,

      Thank you very much for your comments and support. You are correct and that the house remains empty. However the owner still does allow, via up the local chamber of commerce, self guided tours and overnight investigations. Unfortunately this is potentially a very dangerous situation for those who go to the house. We sincerely pray for those who go in without knowing what they’re getting themselves into.

      ~ Debra

  27. Hi Debra,

    I just got done watching the paranormal witness episode The harpy. My daughter has grown a liking to watch paranormal shows with me but this one I made her wait a few years to watch. A question she wanted to ask why did you keep taylor in the room with “sallie” when you found out that she was there?
    My question is there are a ton of similarities I noticed of your story and the movie the conjuring child spirits multiple entities physical harm did you ever watch the conjuring and what was your take on it.

    Emily and Chris

    • Hello Emily and Chris,

      My answer to your daughter’s question is because it was inferred, by the first psychic that visited the house, that Sallie was there to protect the baby; that she wouldn’t do anything to harm him. We thought this to be true as well because of the following:

      Very early on, and in fact the day after that bears had been arranged and a circle up in the nursery by the spirit who was eventually named Sallie, Tony and his brother had an experience in the living room. In a really freaked them out and we were in the process of packing the baby’s things to get out of there for the day. We’re all very anxious to leave the house.

      Tony put the car seat on the couch was putting the baby in his car seat. The baby started fussing in crawling as Tony was buckling him in. He suddenly felt what he thought was a bee sting on his back. Not wanting to waste a minute to deal with it he just figured he would look at it when we got to his parents’ house.

      When we did arrive as parents house and lifted his shirt where he had felt the bee sting and was so shocked my whole life help flush in my knees and weakened. I almost fell to the floor. Tony had three long scratches down the center of his lower back. I’d say they were better 6 inches long.

      On another note, yes, we watched the conjuring the night it was first released. I can remember Tony sitting next to me in commenting throughout the movie, sort of under his breath,” that happened to me”,” and that happen to me”.

      It was sort of one of those moments for him in which you realize how much and actually happened while living in that house. When you have something like that happen to you all you can think about is getting to through that day. The next day you worry about that day, and so on.

      Thanks for dropping by and for your questions. I hope I answer them for you.

      ~ Debra

  28. I listen to a nightly radio show called Coast To Coast AM with George Noory, i think this story would make a great show and you a great guest. I think his audience would love hearing about this very interesting and spooky case, this house sounds just as scary as the Viscilla Axe Murder House, The Entity House, Lizzy Bordon House and Amityville Horror that have all been talked about on his show, thank you for reading.

    • Hello Michael,

      Thank you for the suggestion, and yes we were on coast to coast and several years ago. We are hoping to do another show with them again soon.

      Interesting factoids….

      Did you know that the Sallie house and the Vallisca Ax Murder House have the same address?

      This spirit materialization that Tony saw at the end of the bed one day looked exactly like the neighbor who found them more family and the two young girls slain in the house.

      How’s that for creepy coincidence.

      ~ Debra

  29. Hi Debra

    I have just watched the episode on Paranormal witness and think I will find it difficult to sleep tonight and I am in Sydney Australia.

    I just had a few questions & hoping you’d be kind enough to respond.

    Why did you stay as long as you did when Tony was being physically injured?
    I was constantly thinking “why would you stay?”

    Were you ever scared while being in the house alone?

    Was your son in the house with you all the time?
    Toward the end of the epidode the baby wasn’t seen so was wondering if you had removed him from the house for his safety.

    Have you ever returned to the house since moving out?
    If so how often/ long?

    Is your book able to be purchased in Australia?

    Apologies if you have answered these questions previously.

    Thank you for your time


    • Hello Nicole,
      Glad you stopped in and very happy to answer your questions. Tony and I and I were newlyweds and had just sell all their money into moving into the new house. Even though it was a rental we still had to buy curtains and other home essentials not to mention the expense of renting and truck and such. Additionally, we were expecting their first child and there were even more expenses for him. We were pretty well tapped out. Moving in just didn’t seem like an option for us.

      I was never really scared in the house alone because nothing bad ever happened to me. As far as my son being in the house with me all the time, I can say that is true. I’m sure that there were times that the baby was with Tony and I was home.

      You are very perceptive, I noticed too that the baby was not with this tour of the end of the paranormal witness episode. It was like we just got rid of him or something. LOL the fact is, we always kept him fairly close.

      I returned to the house several times over the course of several years and several paranormal investigative teams. I wanted more answers and felt that if I went with people who were more experience in the paranormal I might get them. Tony avoided the house for 10 years and then with a certain paranormal group he felt comfortable enough to go in with them. After that we investigated the house with them several times over the next year and 1/2.

      As far as the book being available in Australia, I’m really not sure. I have checked to see what it would cost to personally send you a book and unfortunately that’s going to be about $25.00. I do know that it’s available as Ebook, so maybe that’s an option for you.

      I thank you for your interest in two questions Nicole, and I hope you have a wonderful day.

      ~ Debra

  30. Hi Deb! Eric Enzbrenner with Atchison Pararnormal here. Love the site! Great to finally see some GOOD information regarding the history and the paranormal facts of the house. I have been in the home numerous time to give tours, host investigations or do conduct investigations on my own. I absolutely hate it when teams come in and totally disrespect the space. No research is done at all and they would rather entertain than conduct a valid investigation and learn more about the “in-between.” Just dropping by to say keep up the good work! We will be branching out to investigate homes in Atchison that have never been investigated before so keep an eye out for us! Take care!!!

    • Hi Eric,

      Good to hear from you and thank you for the support. There is much to do here on the site, so much information I need to get back up! If there is anything you are specifically interested in let me know, I will find a way to get it to you. We could even meet up with you and a few team members should you be interested, but would prefer doing so BEFORE an investigation. The possibilities of having to deal with attachments are too great otherwise.

      I will keep an eye on AtchisonParanormal’s FB page. I offer you and your team blessing as well as wishes for everyone’s safety. I’m sure everyone in the field appreciates you holding to an ethical
      and respectful investigation protocol.


      • Hanna Singletary

        Hi Debra I’m watching the Sallie house episode right now and just by watching it is really creepy. I have had experiences with the paranormal but nothing like you and your husband experienced it. I went to a school in Worth County Georgia and it was haunted it’s demolished now but I’m 20 now I was in 4th grade and using the bathroom and something called my name and grabbed my ankle I was scared out of my mind. What were your thoughts when “Sallie” was affecting tony?

        • Actually Hanna,I was in awe that she was physically trying to get his attention. I was also jealous that she was seen by him too. Lastly I thought he was sleep deprived and to some extent, his mind was making things up. With that said, I was not my normal self.I was not concerned to the level I should have been and red flags didn’t go up when they should have. The scientific and logical side of me didn’t ask questions, or set up traps to catch activity.

          That was a good question.


  31. hello I have recently watched an episode of ghost adventures and learned about the house you once lived in. It was my curiosity to read a little on your website and came across some scary information about the place. I see that there is no information about your son was just wondering if he was bothered by anything or even how he is to this day? Im sure for security reasons you wouldn’t involve him in anything but I just wanted to know if he’s ok.

    • Hello Tris,

      Our oldest son was born in the house six months after we moved in. He was just over a year old when we moved out. With a child so young who does not yet speak its difficult to know for sure if the house had any effect on him.

      I do know that there were times that he clung to my husband or I as we walked up the stairs to lay him down to bed. This could have been one of the developmental stages and separation anxiety that a child goes through or could mean that he was frightened by something in his room. When he seemed frightened we did not leave them in the room alone.

      He’s much older now and reports remembering nothing from the time we lived in the house. He is intelligent in compassionate, did well in school and this year will be graduating with a master’s degree from a local university.

      Thank you for your concern in taking the time of your day to leave a comment here.

      ~ Debra

  32. Hey Mrs. Pickman!
    My Dad has recently visited this place. We were on vacation and we stopped at the house because it looked familiar. We looked it up and It was the sallie house. I was too scared to go inside. But my dad went in. When He got inside he said that it felt lonely inside. He took a tour, of cores. He came back ouside and was quiet for two hours then. Snapped out of whatever he was in and humorously said. “Hey Mariah! How was your day”? I knew there had to be something in that house that bothered my dad.

    My dad also lived out in a house in california with his brothers and sister. The landlord had told them that he house was built on a indian buarial ground. so there has been things following him and his sisters FOREVER.
    For example a couple months ago, Our dogs started acting strange. and they kept barking at our attic door. I told my dad. and he opened the door. And feel backwards and fainted. I saw nothing. But what could this mean?

    Sorry For the long message/story

    • Hello Maria,

      I think that since your dad by has lived in some spirit heavy environments he may have somewhat of an unknown connection with them, meaning that they interact with and around him more than they would someone else.

      Thank you for sharing.

      ~ Debra

  33. so i have a quick question and that question is what happened to Sallie and her parents because i was trying to find information about this and it dosent talk about how sallie and her parents died because im confused about that.

    • Hi James,

      Good to hear from you.

      As far as our own research and that of others, many of whom specialize in ancestry records, we have not been able to find records for Sallie. The only Sallie that is recorded in Town is a Sallie Hall, however she was about 23 when she died.

      With that said we believe that the Sallie presence we and others encountered was a manifestation of a dark entity trying to hide it’s true form and intent. Basically you can say that it hid behind a little girl in order to gain our acceptance. Because Tony didn’t accept it at face value, it got angry. That’s when we notice things going really .bad.

      • Hey my name is Ben I’m a teen but my dream is to investigate this kinda stuff when I was 6 I have a very bad paranormal experience I had scratchs and pictures turned up side down I saw horrible demonic figures and made contact with one that most people would of heared of its name was zozo but I have a question does a paranormal team still live in the house they have a huge YouTube channel called livescifi

        • Hi Ben,

          You are a brave sort aren’t you? Interesting that your experiences didn’t scare you away from the paranormal. You must be some level of a sensitive. Do you still see things like this?

          As far as your interest in the paranormal goes, take it slow and learn all you can before you get involved. Follow people like Bishop James long, Demonologist John Zaffis, Listen to web radio shows who have great guests on like Dave Schrader on Darkness Radio, and other people in the field like Tim Shaw, nick Groff, Chris Dedman, Dave Considine, Christopher Saint Booth and books by people like Larry Wilson.

          In doing this you will learn about the field and be able to hone your values on how you perceive paranormal encounters. Then you can start looking for a group to apprentice with.

          Regarding the Sallie House, No, the Live SciFi group does NOT live in the house, nor have they ever. That group is not really what it seems to be. They are not honest about things, and they do not go into the house to study it or do research. They are actually very dangerous, because they put the thrill of an extreme experience come before the safety of their team and others. They challenge, taunt and provoke without regard to the fact that when they do this, Tony and I are affected in our current home

          They know this and still they continue to do so. The group is out to make money and gain fame. I don’t want to point out specific situations of falsehoods that they put out there because I don’t want to promote more of an internet war between us. He has basically called us liars and he has banned me and several family and friends from his chat rooms for just saying hi or sharing knowledge about the house. I know they are popular with people interested (but not experienced) in the paranormal, and I truly hope you can see through their antics and claims.

          Be Smart and Be Safe,

          • Hello, Debra. Yeah, I just watched a video by Live SciFi and it was ridiculous. So are you saying entities followed you to your new home?

          • Spirits like this, in a way follow you. There seems to be a definite attachment that remains with hauntings like this; no matter where you go.


          • Hi there I felt as a member of Livescifi I needed to respectfully respond. I became interested in the Sallie house thru your website here as I live in Kansas. To state that we are not honest and we don’t go in to study and research is just purely wrong. When we investigate we stay at the house, have never lived there for more than 3-4 days at a time. A lot of the time off the live shows are spent researching and more researching., and studying. How do you know that we do or don’t do these things? I would never make such a blanket claim about you because I do not know what you do in your life when not on camera. To say that we are dangerous is quite wrong. I would submit that there are people who have gone in and done things to further the malevolent entity there but we aren’t one of them. Our members take this very seriously as well as our own protection. I’m sorry that you and tony are affected by the visits to the house but that is because you are tied in some way to the house. The current owner is who you should be looking at if you are being affected when people investigate there ask him to stop letting groups thru! As far as making money and gaining fame, that’s just a low blow coming from you particularity who have a book, a website, do interviews, etc. the Sallie house is one of many places we investigate and yes we have our own style. We’ve been around for a while and if we wanted money and fame then we’ve obviously missed the boat. We do what we do and how we do it because it’s a passion and we are compelled to try to get proof from the other side. Our viewers are with us because they like us and we greatly appreciate them. There is not and never been to my knowledge an “internet war” between us and you labeling a discussion as such is irresponsible. We wish no war with anyone. I hope that my message to you comes across as respectful and truth on my part as I wish no ill will either.

          • Hello Kristin,

            I appreciate the time you’ve taken in leaving you comment and trying to set things straight. Of course I will allow your comments to be openly seen by all because I have nothing to hide. Unfortunately, it’s more than the consideration I have received in the LiveSciFi chat room over the years.

            I’m not sure when you join the team and cannot speak harshly of you. I don’t know you and you may not be aware of some of the things that have occurred over the years. I will however, separately touch base on the points that you are concerned about.

            To start off, I will say that in the beginning Tim and his crew seemed to be very nice and genuinely concerned with what our family had gone through in that house and during certain times since then when paranormal groups went into the house and challenged what was there. During one of his first investigations to the Sallie house, he gave us his cell phone number and told us to get in touch with him should there be any negative activity seen in our own home.

            We watched the investigation from our own home and several hours into the investigation Tony had already endured a few scratches, but we didn’t call. However, when the spontaneous burns, welts and fires began to appeared on his body we grew concerned. I’m sure you can understand why.

            We watched the live footage as Tim answered his cell phone; ultimately our phone call to him, and then completely ignored our plea about the dangers of what he was doing, and the affect it was having on Tony. That was simply irresponsible.

            “To state that we are not honest and we don’t go in to study and reseah is just purely wrong.” —– I have made this sort of statement because there have been many instances where historical information about the house is made in error but stated as fact by Tim and the team. Of all people that should know correct information about the house, are the ones who make statements about it. Unfortunately that has not been the case. Misrepresenting such basic historical information to the public is neglectful.

            “To say that we are dangerous is quite wrong. I would submit that there are people who have gone in and done things to further the malevolent entity there but we aren’t one of them.” —– I would agree that others have done things to further the malevolent activity in the house, but LiveSciFi CANNOT deny they have done the very same thing.

            Fact is, Tim claimed to have the original dibbuk box of which he brought in the house and even gave a little history on. A dybbuk is a restless, usually malicious, spirit believed to be able to haunt and even possess the living. How would bringing this box into the house NOT be considered a malevolent action with the intent to stir up negative activity and coerce a response?

            Either he lied to his viewers when he claimed it was the original dibbuk box, knowing it would not stir up negative reaction, or he intentionally wanted to ramp up the negativity by bringing in a malicious spirit. Why bring in a negative spirit to antagonize the house? So it begs the question, which did he do? Lie to his viewers or bring in a malicious spirit to create negative activity?

            When an individual or team “studies” a location, it is not dissimilar to being a stranger in foreign land. You study, assess and engage with the culture. You don’t enrage, challenge it or intentionally try to piss it off! I’m sure all of the LiveSciFi viewers can attest to seeing Tim, and on many occasions, antagonize the spirits at many of his investigation locations.

            “I’m sorry that you and tony are affected by the visits to the house but that is because you are tied in some way to the house.” —– Yes, unfortunately my husband didn’t suffer enough in the house; he is still tied to it. When spirits in that house are antagonized, my husband ultimately gets the backlash.

            Most teams are respectful of the issues we face and reject anything that would create more suffering for my husband or our family. Tim and some of his staff however, want us to prove that we are attacked in our own home during the provoking instances at the Sallie house.

            This is not information we want to go big and public with, and we don’t feel that we should have to prove this on LiveSciFi in order for Tim to back off. Tony does not want to become a worldwide public Guinea pig again, all under the wrath of a malicious entity. We are private people, so Tony quietly endures the attacks. We don’t want film crews and strangers trampling through our house and our lives again. Surely you can understand this.

            “The current owner is who you should be looking at if you are being affected when people investigate there ask him to stop letting groups thru!” —– The idea of going to the current owner in order to tell him what he cannot do with his house is a ridiculous one. Not only does he not understand or believe in the potential threat that house posses, he is finally making some money in opening the house to the public. I think it’s about time; the money can go towards its maintenance, utilities and taxes, but no one has the right to tell him that he should stop doing that? It is his house.

            It is only with responsible and experienced paranormal individuals who understand and respect the real possibilities and dangers the house presents that we can request a cease and desist and have it honored.

            ” As far as making money and gaining fame, that’s just a low blow coming from you particularity who have a book, a website, do interviews, etc.” —– What I think is a low blow is turning around and selling dolls and other item that the LiveSciFi team has brought it into the house, on eBay as if they were haunted items.

            We have never been associated with this house in order to make money or gain fame. Unfortunately, the fame came more than 20 years ago when my husband was being tortured in the house and we brought in the only people we felt might help us. For the next year and a half he was a test subject and a national spectacle.

            Since then, yes, we have put together a website based on facts and done numerous radio interviews. We put ourselves out there to help others understand the nature and possible dangers of a haunting. If you have listened to any of our radio interviews, you know that we offer our help, support and assistance to anyone who might be going through a similar situation. There is no reason for anyone to feel alone like we did. We don’t do any of it for fame.

            Our book didn’t come out until 14 years later, and mostly because of the requests made by so many individuals. It wasn’t for fame or money, but in making the information within it available, we’ve been contacted by many groups and individuals who thank us for the interior view of our experiences. The book was a way to offer the public first hand and factual information, to reveal all things that the cameras did not. Its subject was our own traumatic experience and we have every right to share it. We did not create the subject matter nor dramatize anything, unlike LiveSciFi has done on several occasions.

            “…yes we have our own style.”—– This style of investigating disregards safety and is harmful to the viewers because it suggests to them that what the they do is reasonable. Those who are serious, and who have knowledge and experience with dark and demonic spirits, avoid this house for good reason. It is dangerous for not only those who cross its threshold, but their friends and family as well.

            “We do what we do and how we do it because it’s a passion and we are compelled to try to get proof from the other side.” —– Is LiveSciFi team so compelled that they would do something at the expense of others? How ethical or reputable is that?

            “Our viewers are with us because they like us and we greatly appreciate them.” —— Your viewers are with you because they don’t know any better; they think what you do is how investigations are run. They don’t know or understand the dangers, they don’t know about safety protocols or how to recognize when something’s gone wrong. They don’t know about paranormal ethics or the fact that others may be in danger; including themselves. They want to be entertained, they want to see something happen. I get it, we’ve all been there. But that is not the reality of true and ethical investigation.

            “There is not and never been to my knowledge an “internet war” between us and you labeling a discussion as such is irresponsible.” —– I do not know of what our discussion you are referring to. I speak of an “internal war” because that’s how I felt. Lines were crossed by LiveScIFi and our trust was trampled on. My husband, our children and our home were all put in danger without regard to suffering or damage. This has been the case several times during the LiveSciFi investigations. To me that is personal and an act of war.

            Another fact is that there were indeed words exchanged via Facebook posts several years ago when this all began. In fact, it started when I was personally banned from the LiveSciFi chat room during an investigation after simply saying hello. It wasn’t me that started it either. It was someone in the chat room who notice the action and asked about it on Facebook. It escalated from there.

            Another family member and two other friends of ours were also banned. The banishment was not done accidentally to 3 people as claimed. It was intentional. Certain people knew they had crossed the line with us and felt we might retaliate publicly in their chat room. To me, being banned was another act of war. I did nothing to provoke it.

            If you really think about it, who in their right mind wouldn’t want to have the previous resident’s of the house, or others with information on the house, available in their chat room during an investigation? Wouldn’t it be better to have them as a welcomed guests, to answer questions provide information and support the investigation? That’s what I had attempted to do. Had I said anything negative, they certainly would have had the right to ban me then.

            We’ve watched the live feed from investigations. We know the things that have been done and the things that have been claimed. For instance, claiming there was a bloody shirt found in the house and then telling viewers was going to be analyzed; it was all false. Our own investigations of the Sallie house, with both a Kansas City and a Chicago paranormal team, ventured into every nook and cranny of the attic, living space and a basement. We uncovered several things and if there was a bloody shirt, as claimed by Tim, we would have already uncovered it. Furthermore, the shirt was never analyzed as Tim told everyone he was going to do. All of that was deception for the entertainment value of viewers; it was not serious investigating.

            Forgive me, I am a blunt and honest person. My integrity is strong and I don’t play games or make promises I don’t intend to keep. My only quest has been to learn about the paranormal via further research, study and investigation so as to help others understand that they too can survive situations similar to that of our own. I’m sure I take offense easily when it comes to someone misrepresenting the facts of our case, the history of the house or when they don’t maintain the same ethical standards as I do.

            I appreciate your efforts to stand by your paranormal group, and I hold no animosity towards you, especially if you were unaware of any of the above situations. However, after the above treatment I cannot withhold a level of disdain for certain individuals of LiveSciFi. I can only judge and offer comments based on the facts and my personal experiences; this is exactly what I have done when someone inquires.

            You could say I feel compelled to give people the facts and warn them away from any negative or potentially dangerous situations when it comes to dealing with that house.

            I sincerely thank you for sharing your feelings here.

            ~ Debra

          • Debra, I thank you for allowing my response to remain on your chat (some would’ve just removed it) I also appreciate your response to me. I also liked how you took my response section by section so we can discuss particular points. I’m super busy today and tomorrow but wanted to let you know I will have time to sit down, longer than this, lol and respond. I am interested in many points you made in response. I also would ask that we keep our conversations, as we have so far, truthful and friendly. This way I feel we will hear each other’s points and be able to hopefully help anyone else reading our discussion. No war between you and I. Agreed? I’ll post soon in response to yours. Thank you.

          • Hello again Kristin,

            I have no problem keeping our conversations honest, friendly and respectful. I do however feel that any further conversation should be between you and I on a personal level. Further details from my end of the experiences with LiveSciFi are not a good, and like I said I do not, and never have wanted to be in any type of Internet drama.

            I feel that you and I can keep it clean, truthful and respectful and I’ve also learned from the past. When the situation ways LiveSciFi I was brought up in the forum that this site had, before the reorganization I am in the process of, certain people took it all out into a more public eye (Facebook) and that really ugly about it. Public and personal attacks are not good for my husband and I, nor for anyone on the LiveSciFi by team.

            For that reason I will not discuss any of this further in a public forum. Should you feel the need to discuss anything further I would be more than happy to do so via email.

            Most sincerely,
            ~ Debra

      • Is it possible for it to follow you somewhere else?! I visited the house a few months back and ever since the same type of stuff started happening at my place in canada what should i do?!

        • Hi Alex,

          Yes, it is most certainly possible for it to follow you, and it will go anywhere with you. The only weapon we seem to have that works well is our faith in God. Now I’m not trying to get on a band stand to preach to you or anyone else, and I do not know if you are religious or what religion you faith may be based in, but I would suggest to you that you strengthen you faith and relationship with God.

          Some put a lot of faith in crystals, indian Gods, Reiki energy, etc. Where ever your belief lies is where you need to build a strong layer of protection.

          As I mentioned in an other post, I would be happy to share some of the prayer we use in our own daily battle against the dark forces that intrude upon our lives. Just contact me via Debra@TheSallieHouse.com

          We have also recently started a recovery group called Survivors of the Dark, and you can din us on Facebook. You might find it helpful.


    • How many do you believe haunt the sallie house ?? Also , many people go to check out the sallie house have they ever gotten hurt?!

      • Hi Haylee,

        It hard to tell how many entities are in the house now. So many people, investigators have gone in and invited other spirits to enter.

        As far as getting hurt, I believe that several have claimed to have been scratched, but nothing worse than that or life threatening.


    • There Was A Certain Procedure Being Done To Sallie, She Was Sick & I Guess Something Went Wrong… Theres A Documentary On YouTube That Shows Part Of What Happened But It Wasn’t Clear… Just Look Up “The Sallie House” On YouTube & It Should Show Up

      • Hi Michelle,

        That “story” is just that , a story that was made up. We have found bo evidence or historical documentation that those actions ever took place.


  34. My name is Aiden and I was wondering if my wife and I could investigate the Sallie House?

    • Hi Aiden,

      It’s good to hear from you. I would direct you to the following an investigators story , Getting into the Sallie House

      Be extremely careful if you do go into this house. I can’t stress this enough!


      • Hi Debra,

        I’m Currently A High School Student But I Constantly Reread These Stories About This House. Eventually I Plan On Investigating Paranormal Activities. I Was Wondering How I Would Be Able To Go See The House & What Type Of Precautions I Need To Take Before I Do So.. Please Let Me Know Any Information. Also I Have An Assignment For A Class. It Is To Interview Any Person Of My Choice & Find Out About What They Do & Their Previous Experiences In Life. Maybe There’s Some Way We Could Contact Each Other If You Have The Time, I’d Love To Interview You About This Story. Hopefully I’ll Get A Response Back Soon.

        Thank You So Much

        • Hello Michelle,

          For now I would build on your interests in the paranormal, Read everything that is put out there on equipment and on the local groups in your area. Most groups now have a Facebook page and you can get a feel for their beliefs and ethics. When the time comes join a group that you feel matches your feelings and ethics. Learn all you can at that point. You will likely change groups over the course of time until you find one that you really like.

          As far as going to the house I would NOT suggest you, or anyone else, goes to the house. With that said I would build you faith and relationship with God so that he will be there when needed if you happen to come across an extreme location like the Sallie House. It is only our faith in God that got us thru living in that house and has kept us together in the aftermath of that haunting.


  35. Hey, Debra and Tony! Not sure if you remember me or not. I was posting on the old message board that used to be on this site. Looked like the site was down for a while. Glad to see it’s back up.

    My first cat Chessie still comes around. I actually saw him last Sunday sitting on my kitchen table. I also made a third trip down to the abandoned town of Moonville back in October. Had some interesting experiences on this trip which I’ll be detailing in a YouTube documentary that I’m working on.

    • Yes, i do remember you an especially the interaction you have had with your cats. Glad to hear Chessie is still around.

      And yes this site was down for a little while during the transition. I am still reorganizing and will be for a long time to come it seems. It’s a slow process when you wonder what the right way.

      It was good to hear from you again.
      ~ Debra

    • Dear Mr Pickman and Mrs. Pickman,
      I am A huge fan of Paranormal witness and was intrigued by your story. I just read the story behind the house and it was interesting. Thank you very much for telling your story while at the house

      • You are so very welcome Connor. Please be aware that any made for television event has a bit of distortion in it. It does not necessarily reflect first hand experiences as they happened. With that said, Paranormal Witness did do a good job in reflecting how dangerous this house can be.

        Thank you for taking the time to leave a comment.


  36. Hi Mrs. Pickman,
    I am doing a research paper on paranormal activity for my sophomore paper. I have seen Sallie’s hauntings on one of my favorite paranormal documentary shows “A Haunting” and I was wondering if you could possibly provide any information. I am not positive if the show had showcased all the information correctly or if they had added some events that did not occur. Were the scratches on your husbands back sever? I had read on some articles that the scratches were not felt and hardly bled, and some of them stated the exact opposite. Did Sallie and the older spirit do any harm to you or your child? I would really appreciate if you could help me out. 🙂
    Brandy Andrews

    • The television shows often embellish the activity that occur. The also have to stuff a lot of information in a short time span, so in a big way it gets really distorted.

      Yes Tony’s scratches were rather sever at times. He usually did not feel them when they occurred, usually they bled a little, some of the deeper ones bled a lot.

      I sensed sally at times, but it was only by a distinct sense of cold air around me. I can’t be sure that my infant son did not have experiences of his own. He was not able to take yet. We left the house and he was only about 16 months old. I know there were sighs that led us to believe he had had some sort of frightening experience, but he never showed physical signs (scratches etc…) Call is a parent’s intuition.

      Good luck on your paper.

      • Hi,
        Just wondering if your story on the show ‘paranormal witness’ is embellished too or if it even presents things that never even happened. I’m a believer but I always want to know the truth about hauntings. I hate it when shows embellish for ratings. It just gives skeptics more fuel.

        • Hi Sharmayne,

          I’m glad you asked. Paranormal Witness, like many other television shows about the paranormal takes creative liberty in telling the story the way they understand it best. Tony and I were caught off guard by the whole “harpy” thing. We had never heard of it to tell you the truth. Unfortunately we never allowed any creative input on these television shows.

          I think the producers felt there was a connection between the apparition of the old woman and the black bird that appeared on her hand as it came towards Tony.

          The rest of the show was pretty much on point.


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  41. Hi Debra,

    I’ve watched many paranormal documentaries and have to say that your experiences of living in the Sallie House was one of the most intriguing. I’m a religious Jew who lives in Israel, but have had a very strong pull to the spiritual since being a young child and I’m very sensitive to these things. I believe that you and Tony are too, which is why you were both so much more aware of the activity than previous tenants (at least two of which have said on tape that they experienced things). Watching documentaries about the Sallie House seems to trigger something for me, even though I live in Jerusalem and it wasn’t nice. I felt like something was trying to communicate with me and I’m sure others have felt the same from long distances. I don’t know how you stayed in that house for so long! I have a feeling that the owner of the house has had more unusual experiences than he has let on.

    I have one question. Surely the neighbors experience the entities from the home as well?

    • Hi Yoel,

      The house reaches out to many people and draws unsuspecting people into its web. It’s definitely a place to stay away from. Most of the activity centered around Tony and I did not understand how much was going on. It’s a very bad house. Yes people have been drawn to this house from long distances and I’m glad it’s too far away from miles because those who live closer are actually able to visit which is a danger in itself.
      Those who are sensitive seem to be drawn in on the second level please put up any block see you use consider that realizing it what resides in this house can easily get into your head and wreck havoc in your life.
      The owner does not enter the house unless absolutely necessary. Any overnight stays or investigations are currently being run by the Chamber of Commerce. The owner has had experiences and doesn’t talk about them often.
      It doesn’t seem the neighbors are experiencing activities. When we lived there however, the neighbors did see the nursery light on often. Interesting enough we were not using the nursery room at that time.


      • Hi Debra,

        Thank you for your response. When I have felt this felt it gave me a really sick feeling and stay away from it and have no desire to visit the house where it seems to be strongest and very attached. I’ve been watching the Dead Files which seems to focus on a lot of haunting like your own. One of the episodes caught my attention as it featured a house built on native American land and it was the only episode in which the Psychic, Amy, told the family living there that the land was uninhabitable and they should just leave. She said that the native Americans were aware that there was something wrong with that area of land and left it alone, but they were forced off by European settlers who subsequently built there. I know that on one or two occasions I’ve read that people have seen a native American presence at the Sallie House and I wonder how that affects the land and why the very specific spot where that house is and not half a dozen on the block.

        Best regards

        • Hello Yoel,

          I did see that episode of Dead File you are referring to. ony and I did work with Amy several years ago. She didn’t state that she thought the house was uninhabitable, but within the research and development work we were doing at the house at that time, she did state that there was an inhuman energy that dwelled in the basement.

          In the research of one investigative group it was found that the land the Sallie house sits on is “tainted” land according to the indians. It’s said that they would avoid that land, even though it was on the rivers edge, they would go around it.

          It does beg the question of why some of the houses around it are not affected in the same way.


          • Hi Debra,

            l wanted to leave another reply. You mention ‘inhuman energy’. I’ve discovered recently quite a few reports of ‘shadow men’ being considered to be extraterrestrial and not merely a disembodied spirit or being that we know from life or from religion and culture’s. I’ve seen a couple of paranormal investigations where the victim claims to have seen a shadow man with red eyes. 7 years ago I lived with a couple of friends, one of whom said she woke up to see an alien like creature next to her bed with red eyes. The whole idea that there are ghost like beings in haunting’s that are extraterrestrial is a barely explored field. I also had something interesting happen to me last Friday whilst I was at a friends house. He and other guests were playing a game following a meal and I sat alone to rest. Whilst I was sat there I heard this peculiar grumble that emanated midair, a little out from my chest and didn’t know what to make of it.

            Best wishes

          • It’s been said that shadow people are “watcher” here to observe and report”. I know they are even in our current home. We have never been aware of those with red eye other then by others reporting it.I really have no input on it because we have had no circumstance in which they have been observed by us.

            Aliens surely can’t be ruled out, and your right, this possibility has yet to be explored by anyone.

            Was it a ouija board game? Was your mind thinking into a specific theory about hauntings or the supernatural? if so it could have been a warning that you were getting to close to the truth. I would have to know more about the situation and the activities taking place at the time, as well as how much you are involved in the paranormal what direction , in order to think more on this and give you a better answer.


          • Hi Debra,

            I tried to respond earlier, but I don’t think my post went through, so if there is two posts, please feel free to delete this one. None of us dabble in the occult or do Ouija boards, crystals, tarot cards or the like. It was Shabbat eve, following lunch and they were playing the harmless board game, Settlers of Catan. I was tired and decided to sit it out. I’m religious, so pray three times a day, twice in a Synagogue and once at home. I was, in the past, very much into spirituality and conspiracy theories and did some past life work for a couple of years up to 2005/6. I don’t think I was thinking of anything much when I heard the sound, though I do watch paranormal documentaries. I’m very intuitive with people and have had spiritual experiences before, all but one of them were harmless. I’m also epileptic and I’m careful to try and distinguish between that and other stuff.

            Best regards

          • Would like to add, that sometimes when looking into paranormal stuff, I “connect” with the story and I’m not sure why. I get a huge tingling sensation across my head and I feel incredibly light. I got this with the Sallie House story and several others.

          • Hi Joel,

            Interesting story

            You might have an ability that has been trying to surface. IT’s been said that we all have it, we just aren’t aware of it.

            I’m not sure if that brings you comfort or not. I do thank you for sharing


      • hey Debra is it true that when you wore on the show sightings that the rose that has not been touched was burned by “sally” the spirit in the house while u wore grabbing the drawing the pick that tony drew

        • No Noland. The rose was burned while the filmcrew was filming in the other room. Inbetween takes I had gone into the kitchen to make the baby a bottle and discovered it.


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    • Hello Andy,

      It seems you may have overlooked our “Buy me a coffee” button at the bottom of the right hand column. Any and all donations are graciously accepted and put to good use while furthering the posting of great articles and presenting relevant content and information on the Sallie House.

      Thank you for your continued support.

      ~Debra and Tony Pickman

  43. Hi Debra,
    I truly , I MEAN TRULY, love your website. It is” AWESOME”. I am a strange person they tell me as I don’t watch horror movies or evil things at all , however I do believe in spirits. I have never had a bad spirit to visit me . My husband died of a massive heart attack in 2008, and he comes and visits quite a bit . He always would put his hand on my shoulders and just it across as he walked by while he was living , and he does it now in spirits . I always gets this cool breeze before it happens now . But it is “SURREAL”.

    Would I like for this to STOP ? No. Some people say it’s my mind going bad . My mind is still good. I don’t imagine this ,if I did I wonder why I have to pick up my dish cloth from the floor when I know I draped it over the dish drainer. This was ” My husband’s Pet Peeve ” he thought a clean one had to be got out every day .

    Nice work on your site and I got to go and read more . I am new to WA, and actually just getting started, I signed up and three days later had a truck to back over me and ram me into the back of a semi trailer and the DOT bar caught me in the left leg and then while recouping from that surgery I had a heart attack. Just getting home now but I lost 3 weeks of training . Having to learn the hard way as my ability to ask questions in the training phases has gone . But I will get it built up .

    • Hi Brenda,

      There is no rush in the WA training, you will do just fine. Maybe a little reviewing of each lesson and then your of and running again.

      II think it’s sweet tat your late husband is there with you, and it’s very clear to me that he is by what you describe. If you want him to go, you need to tell him. From the bottom of your heart and soul, tell him you will be allright and you will meet him again later. You and he need to move on in the directions that are intened for you.

      Glad you are enjoying wat this site has to offer, I hope I can get more material posted here soon. I want to start posting more details of our own experiences. So keep a watch out for it soon.

      Best wishes to you,

  44. Hi, Have seen you guys on a few different shows and I am curious at to who actually owns the house now.
    Thanks, Brian

    • Hi Brian,

      Yes, we have been on man shows. LOL and about this time of year you will likely see more of us.

      The owner of the house is Les Smith and he has owned the house for about 6 months before we moved in. That was December 31st 1992. I would caution everyone, never move on New Years Eve. Everyone has plans and can’t help you. LOL Lesson learned


  45. Hello debra…

    I have had my own fair share of things happening in many houses I have lived in starting since one as a little girl.
    My first occurance was when one as around the age of 5. We lived in a small town in indiana… A graveyard was just across the street in a neighbors back yard… Every night I would see a light walking back and forth and it would stop and stare at me as I watched from my window it never bothered me much just seemed lost… Then a few years back we moved to ky. And in my room one night I woke up because once it something crawling on me. When I opened my eyes there was dozens of spiders crawling on me I screamed and when help ran in they vanished…. A year later my little sister moved into my old room and I moved out with my fiance and my growing family. My sister called me one night Bering me home crying(my mom was away) so I go home she shows me the neclace that never leaves her neck in a tables mess on the floor. Her jewelry box scattered on the ground and the closet door wide open and we felt like someone was watching. I walked into the the closet and it seemed at ease. I moved her to a different room in the house and no one touches that room… I recently moved to another house with my husband and 2 children and during the night I hear a woman yelling and some nights a man fighting with her… I’m not all that worried because they haven’t harmed anyone…. But I was watching your story and couldn’t help but wander if the reason tony was getting hurt was a mad entitee had connected it’s self to him and that’s why he was feeling angry and violent and was always the pinpoint of pain or activity… Just a thought.

    • Hello Laura,

      Thank you for sharing your stories. It seems as long as you don’t interact with them and respect their space, they won’t harm you. That is a good thing.

      As far as your thoughts on Tony getting hurt, I think you are right. A negative energy did attach itself to him and cause anger and cause pain.


  46. Hi Debra,
    Love the look of your website. What do you mean when you said that you used Bootstrap Canvas WP? Is it a plugin? What Theme did you use?
    As for the article I have to say that as a Christian I don’t believe in ghosts in the traditional sense. I do believe that people are seeing spirits of what they believe to be departed loved ones or departed souls who used to live in the building. However I don’t believe that they are seeing the actual spirits of these people. The Bible says that it is appointed to man to die once and then he must face the judgement seat of Christ. Therefore what are these people seeing? They are seeing evil spirits who are posing at dead people in order to fool people into thinking that they are seeing the departed spirit of the person who used to live in the building. The Bible says that the Devil is a liar and the father of lies and this is one of the ways that he is deceiving people into believing that there is no heaven or hell. Or that departed souls can stay around to resolve some unfinished problem or to avenge their death.

    I know that I have made a VERY unpopular comment. I hope it will be given the same consideration as all the previous ones that have been made.

    • That is the name of the WordPress theme I use.

      In some cases (many more than paranormal investigators realize sometimes) you are exactly right, evil presenting themselves in a likeness of a loved one will do so to gain trust and acceptance so that they can influence them, do them harm or wreck havoc upon them and in their life.
      My husband has seen this first hand when his mother died. When he did not accept her open arms and go to her, it turned into a hideous creature; one I’m sure was the likeness of evil.
      We have worked with prayer and called on God and his angels multiple times. We know there is a significant difference. That said, we also know the devil is a good liar and manipulator and people can sometimes be taken in by what they believe is good energy and spirit. The work that we do is very dangerous for not just ourselves, but also for our families and loved omes if we don’t know what we are doing or fail to include prayer for God’s protection.

      Some people don’t believe the devil or evil spirits move among us, but save it to say that if they will acknowledge that there are angels that have intervened and appear among us at times, there must be balance in the world which means that we must realize that there is evil or demons among us as well.

      With that said, consider this question: if prayer and the bible reference “the Holy spirit”, doesn’t this suggest that there is more than one spirit that can be referenced. I say this because if not, prayers and the Bible would reference the holy spirit as “spirit” ( as in the one and only). Hence, Father, son and Holy Ghost. It would stand to reason that making the designation that the ghost is holy, separates it from others, giving credence that others exist but the one we are speaking about is the “Holy” spirit?

      Just thoughts to consider from one Christian to another .

      I thank you for sharing your thoughts,

  47. Hi,
    What an amazing post…I have only read this one page…but after my comment I will be spending my time reading the rest!

    Way back in 1992 when I first left University and began teaching I moved to a small town in NZ just outside of Timaru and had a beautiful cottage overlooking the sea.

    In that cottage we also had a similar phenomenon, but it was located only in one room. A tiny small guest bedroom. When anyone slept in that room they would be visited by the most horrendous smell, which steadily grew worse and worse. If that didn’t force anyone out them similarly objects would begin to be moved and then thrown. Luckily noone was physically harmed.

    The odd thing was when I went into the room and the smell would appear I would sit on the bed and talk to George, telling him it was OK and that we were friends and sending universal light to guide him home…the smell would disappear but I would see the physical imprint on my arm which appeared to be the same as when someone rests their hand on your skin.

    I have no idea why, but I don’t believe he was earthbound, but I think he still maintained an attraction and firm attachment to the house and was a protector.

    He loved children, and would never frighten them (so he definitely was trying to spook the adults). A friend of mine had a 3 year old daughter at the time and as soon as she arrived she would head straight to the bedroom to “play with George”…and we never told her “his” name.

    • What an awesome story Jason,

      Sounds like a gradfatherly type. Does anyone still live in the house? Have trouble with that same room?

      I thank you very much for sharing. Not all haunting are bad. With that said however, I would still be wary that what presented was not what it seemed.

      I appolojize, but after our experiences I am often very wary of people getting to close or comfortable with spirits. Children are much easier to convince that what they are seeing or feeling is a good presence so they are more likely to have “friendships with them. Children are also more prone with the ability to see them (or what they present).

      Was any history done on the house, was there actually a George connected to the house? A reason you called him George? Perhaps you are somewhat sensitive?

      Anyway, thank you for sharing,


  48. Hi Debra
    Just wanted to say after watching the paranormal witness program about the sallie house here in Sydney Australia I was freaked out! Had my own dealings with spirits during the mid ninties and was only ever attacked once when I shot at one with a rifle but nothing like what tony received!

  49. Hi Debra. I submitted a comment asking bout tearing down the house and placing a blessing on the house. One thing that is interesting to me is why does the owner of the house allow it to stand? I have seen paranormal groups remove items that were demonic and place them in the ground and place the blessing on them. The ghost adventure has a similar house in Indiana .very demonic. I firmly believe the owner needs to tear it down and prevent any further harm or skepticism. Thanks for allowing us to comment

    • Hi Rebecca,

      He really doesn’t believe in the demonic nature of the situation. He didn’t believe us about the activity we were having when we lived there, but changed his tune after we moved out and while doing some work on the house had some paranormal activity himself (on multiple occasions)

      I heard that in an interview, many years ago, I said he felt like the protector of the house”. Not sure what that means, but it doesn’t sound good when you consider the very nature of what is in the house. He may be experiencing the negative part of the house and not even realize it.

      Thanks for the thoughts and comments,

    • Not all ghosts haunt houses specifically. Some haunt the land that the house sits on. Some are attached to objects like trinkets , dolls, etc.. Others attach themselves to one particular person or family. Much like living human beings each ghost/haunting is unique.

      • Hi Rhonda,

        You are absolutely right. We believe that what is there at the house is actually attached to the land. One investigation group claims historical documentation that the Indians avoided that area of land and called it tainted.

        I cannot confirm or deny those claims, but if correct it would speak loudly of how negatively they felt about the land. Being so close to the river it would have been a safe high ground for encampment; of which they would give up if it was tainted. I also don’t know how much of an area they considered tainted.


  50. I know it is not recommended for anyone to go inside this house, but is it at all possible for us to go inside and investigate without facing any legal issues?

  51. Emily Jane Stewart

    Hey! I’m new to this website thing… but The Sallie House is amazing in a terrifying kinda way

  52. Hello, I have watched the paranormal witness show about your story, I have been in a similar situation as you have but I was younger and my experience wasn’t as bad but I believe in ghosts. My question is can people go inside the house to look around? And who owns the Sallie House? Thank you.

    • Hi Carrie,

      Les Smith has owned the house since we rented it from him over 20 years ago. They let people in for self guide tours around Halloween. I hear it pretty lame, a sentence or two on a piece of paper that hangs on the door of each room and you can’t go into the basement. I wouldn’t want to see anyone go into that house. It’s very dangerous.


  53. I would like to come and investgate the house myself. Is this possible?

    • Jim, we don’t advocate for anyone to go into the house.


      • I just used a voice box app and I had never heard of the Sallie house or the voice box inventer but it said Frank was at home with sally. Now that I’ve looked all this stuff up online I am totally freaked out. It asked for the terms we were to engage on or something to that effect and when I said I love Jesus my phone shook and the word rage came up. Should I be concerned?

        • Hi Steve,

          My Apologies for hot getting back to you sooner. I found your writing about your interaction with the ghost box rather interesting.

          Frank is indeed the inventor of the ghost box and I worked with his original prototype at the Sallie house years ago.

          This house and the entities are known for misguiding and manipulating people.

          Also we could not find any historical documentation on a Sallie. we are sure that this little girl was presented to us by the evils forces that exist in the house to gain our acceptance and ultimate control.

          This leads me to believe that the ghost box, or the spirits coming through, were lying.

          I think it was opposed to your terms and I would stand by them by the grace of God.

    • I know its not really recommended, however i grew up around a lot of paranormal activity all my life and at 40,im still experiencing things at my new house in KY. I am very interested in this house and would. Like to investigate myself if at all possible Without incurring any legal issues. If you would plz contact me with details od appreciate it. Tier1tacticalsolutions@gmail.com. Thks Debra

  54. I am just learning of this house. I caught the story on paranormal witness this afternoon. And since its based on a true story, I am very intregued with it. I have some questions that I would rather not put on public record so if you have some time and dont mind, Id love to email back and forth with you or even your husband. Maybe I can get some answers as well. Thanks!!

  55. Its like you read my mind! You appear to know so much about
    this, like you wrote the book in it or something.
    I think that you could do with some pics to drive the message home a bit, but other than that,
    this is magnificent blog. A great read. I will certainly be back.

    • Hi Joven,

      I realize it can be a dry read and eventually I would like to get images in. My main concern at this time is returning 200+ pages of detailed information to viewers. I am also looking into getting some sort of image gallery together for viewing more than 240 pictures. Hope to also be able to offer more than 100 EVP files and radio interviews.


  56. Hey! I’m at work browsing your blog from my new apple iphone!
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  57. Has anyone ever wanted to tear down the house take the boards.nails.glass and all contents put into a hole on the land itself andplace a blessing over it. Burning doesn’t work

    • Hi Rebecca,

      I know many have suggested to burn it to the ground. Whatever is there is tied to the land, so not so sure if it would help except to stop people from going into the house. Unfortunately we have no cotrol over that b/c we have never owned it.


  58. Hello 🙂
    My question is in regards to the lady who supposedly did sacrifices in the basement. When did she live in the house ( specific years ) in relation to when you lived there. Was it before or after? Also, is anything known about her….. name, age, whatever happened to her after she left/moved out of the house?

    Am I correct in thinking things were weird before she was ever there…. before the pentagram was drawn on the basement floor? Or…. is she most likely the one that started all this?

    • Hi Nicole,

      Not sure there were sacrifices in the house. I know there was some level of witchcraft practiced. This took place about 2 or 3 years after we moved out. She still lives somewhere in town.

      Our experience while living in the house took place well before any pentagram. I think she may have opened up the house to more bad energy and entotoes.


      • Hi Debra,
        I just watched an episode of your story and was curious about the same question Nicole just asked. I was wondering if your opinion of the woman who moved in after you might of gotten possessed from the house? Just curious how the coincidence of someone who practices witchcraft moved in there. Also, I just started googling this story so forgive me if I am asking something I should know but what about the previous owners before you? Did they have same experiences? Lastly what’s the history of the house? Sorry this story just caught my interest.
        Thank you,

        • Hi Tanya,

          Tony and I never owned the house; we rented it. Other than the divorced woman named Colleen who rented the house before us, I am unaware of any previous experiences in the house. Colleen’s young daughter had an imaginary friend named Sallie. Read more here.

          As far as the woman who moved into the house after us, I do not think she was possessed. Instead I think that, by way of witchcraft, she was either trying to harness the energy within the house or protect her family from the dark energy/entity.


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  61. it sounds like the house is really possesed with demons but maybe they are frightened spirits that need help to move on to the other world but you will have to gain their trust

    • Laura,

      I believe there are some frightened spirits being held back by demons, or the demons are presenting as such. They are very very tricky and misleading!

  62. My partner and I absolutely love your blog and find many of your post’s tto be exactly what I’m looking for.

    Does one offer guest writers to write content for yourself?

    I wouldn’t mind creating a post or elaborating on many of the subjects you writfe with regards to here.
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    • Hi,

      We do not offer guest blogs at this time unless it is in regards to experiences with or in the Sallie House, of which this website is dedicated to. Although there are some articles here regarding investigating, equipment and the like, the main focus is the house and those who want to share information about it. Should you have an article you think relevant, please feel free to check out this link and then submit it to evidence@thesalliehouse.com so that it gets to the right person for evaluation.


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    • Hi,

      Hi Dimitris,

      We do not offer guest blogs at this time unless it is in regards to experiences with or in the Sallie House, of which this website is solely dedicated to. Although there are some articles here regarding investigating, equipment and the like, the main focus is the house and those who want to share information about it. Should you have an article you think relevant, please feel free to check out this link and then submit it to evidence@thesalliehouse.com so that it gets to the right person for evaluation.


  68. I’m really enjoying the design and layout of your site.
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  69. Hello, I have a question here. Does any of you ever try to remove the demon entities from the sallie house? or only ghost hunting investigation?


    • Hello Olga,

      To answer both of your questions, yes there have been 2 demonologists in the house after we moved from it and 3-4 that wil not attempt entering under any circumstances/ Speaking with Lorraine Warren my husband was told not to go back to the house, because it had more demons than any other location she knew of.

      We do not own the house and never did, and I caution you to protect yourself to the highest if you look to a closer understanding and look into the house.


      • Hi Debra,
        Thank you for your respond. I was wondering whether there are some house pictures in this website??
        Because i do sense that there is a portal need to be closed. This portal shouldnt be opened. But somehow, the portal has been opened for such a long time.
        I am a Medium and im not from the US. I am originally from Indonesia and i saw the documentary tv show about this house which you and your husband was in that tv shows.

        There are about 6 or 7 demons in the house. But the main character is this demon called “Sallie”. Lets say Sallie is the boss there and the rest of the demons are just HIS EMPLOYEES. I would say HIS because the real image of Sallie ( the demon ) is a male. This Sallie appeared in this house because this portal is not even closed. His bring the employees with him. I wont call myself a Medium, but i called myself a LIGHT WARRIOR. I am someone who fight with negative entities and demonic entities. I am not famous at all, unlike Lorraine Warren She is Famous. but im not because i dont advertise my work, usually people know me from mouth to mouth.
        I dont have the EVP or whatsoever because i am connecting to the universe straight away and i know that some spirits and some demons are hiding somewhere inside the house even someone already remove them. Demons are very very smart, they can hide and pretend they are gone so that Mediums wont even see it.
        I wont called myself a demonologist too 🙂
        But i do know how to remove them for good.
        Do you know the owner of the house that i can contact with? Because when i travel to the US, i would like to visit this Sallie house.

        By the way, the basement if the house has a basement, thats where the portal is…
        Blessings for you and your family

        • Hi Olga,

          I agree with much of what you have said. I am in the process of re-structuring the website and unfortunately I don’t have many photos up and ythe gallery is gone. It a huge site and I am working on things as fast as I can b/c I know many people come to read and gain knowledge of the site. You mighnt find this link helpful.

          Please checki back as I will continually have more information available.


          • Hi Debra
            Actually your website it does helpful for me. Because i would like to gain more knowledge. I dont have any team at all. Im working alone as a demonologist, Medium and Light Warrior. Perhaps next year i would love to visit this house and have a look around.
            The basement i get very strong sense there. so when im there, would you mind to take me look around the house? or who i must contact with about visiting the house?

            Thank you and Blessings

          • Hi Olga,

            Unfortunately Tony and I don’t really like going to the house. Our last visit was Aug of 2007, until we recently went in with the Ghost Adventures Team last year.

            We do not support anyone going into the house because of the dangers that are present. Getting a hold of the owner (not us) is the only way into the house.If you still have plans next year to visit, we’ll see what we can do.


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      Not everyone cares to hear about such things, especially if they have not had an experience of their own. Those of us who have find it difficult to relay information that they can connect with. We no longer try to sway people to believe our experiences, just put it out there for others to draw from them. I will keep posting.


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      My posted policy is that people have permission to repost my content, with a link and credit to this site. I am more about getting the information shared and out there, rather than keeping it to myself. I know you can get a plugin that will disable any copying of content. It won’t stop them from retyping what they want to copy though.


  78. who lives in the house now and have they had any experiences

  79. who lives in the house now?

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    • Hi,

      We do not offer guest blogs at this time unless it is in regards to experiences with or in the Sallie House, of which this website is dedicated to. Although there are some articles here regarding investigating, equipment and the like, the main focus is the house and those who want to share information about it. Should you have an article you think relevant, please feel free to check out this link and then submit it to evidence@thesalliehouse.com so that it gets to the right person for evaluation.


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      Thank you for the comliment and I will keep up the writting. This is not a paid theme. I used WordPress theme, Bootstrap Canvas WP and my own header and background


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Comments are closed